puredrifting
Major Contributor
Matt:
Thanks for the good belly laugh this morning. What? Wait, you mean you were serious and weren't joking? Oh boy! http://tinyurl.com/7af3u
Dan
HPX170 with adapter vs. Canon 5D mkII ?
- Thread starter matt9b
- Start date
Matt:
Thanks for the good belly laugh this morning. What? Wait, you mean you were serious and weren't joking? Oh boy! http://tinyurl.com/7af3u
Dan
Angry Leprechaun
Well-known member
Does this look like Vaporware to you?
Shot with a prototype 2/3" Scarlet with a prototype 25mm mini-RED Prime.
And don't forget, the Red One was considered vaporware before it was released, and now look at it.
kyle.presley
Well-known member
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Easy RED Fans, just joking around.
While it may not match the strictest definition of vaporware, can you buy one today? Can you buy one before June 2009? Can you buy the specific sensor size version you want before 2010? Has RED given any definitive delivery dates beyond vague ever shifting seasons of the year? I didn't think so. There is no such thing as a retail RED Scarlet, there are undetermined test mules in the labs of the RED building that have been named as Scarlets. How many times has the "Scarlet" changed body type, specs and price? Am I correct?
FWIW, I am just as hyped about the Scarlet "concept" as you are and will undoubtedly buy one if it is as great as everybody thinks it will be but in my book, if it has been hyped for years and you cannot buy it, it is vapor. I know that RED has every intention of releasing it, I am not saying that they won't, but for someone to put off a purchase of a camera to "wait for the Scarlet"?
If anything, cheaper VDSLRs like the Panasonic GH1 and Canon 5D MKII are the cameras that could possibly cause cameras like the HPX170/EX1 to lose value in the used market. There are plenty of people who own them and cannot afford them, they HPX170 and EX1 are pretty costly for hobbyists. Check in the Marketplace, you'll see it all of the time, people selling these because they need the money and probably over stretched themselves to buy the 170/EX1 types of cams.
Dan
While it may not match the strictest definition of vaporware, can you buy one today? Can you buy one before June 2009? Can you buy the specific sensor size version you want before 2010? Has RED given any definitive delivery dates beyond vague ever shifting seasons of the year? I didn't think so. There is no such thing as a retail RED Scarlet, there are undetermined test mules in the labs of the RED building that have been named as Scarlets. How many times has the "Scarlet" changed body type, specs and price? Am I correct?
FWIW, I am just as hyped about the Scarlet "concept" as you are and will undoubtedly buy one if it is as great as everybody thinks it will be but in my book, if it has been hyped for years and you cannot buy it, it is vapor. I know that RED has every intention of releasing it, I am not saying that they won't, but for someone to put off a purchase of a camera to "wait for the Scarlet"?
If anything, cheaper VDSLRs like the Panasonic GH1 and Canon 5D MKII are the cameras that could possibly cause cameras like the HPX170/EX1 to lose value in the used market. There are plenty of people who own them and cannot afford them, they HPX170 and EX1 are pretty costly for hobbyists. Check in the Marketplace, you'll see it all of the time, people selling these because they need the money and probably over stretched themselves to buy the 170/EX1 types of cams.
Dan
Someone has no idea how business works. If your going to get the upper hand on your competition, you have to have something better then they do. How is RED going to be able to do this if they go and blab everything they plan to do? That would be setting engineering goals for the other companies.
I think the RED ONE proved that RED is capable of doing what they say they will. If that's not enough proof for you, you can look up the pictures and videos that have been taken with the prototype so far. You can call up one of well over 5000 happy owners of RED products around the world and talk to them about it. And heck, if you really want to, you can go to the Reduser forums and talk to Jim Jannard himself.
Have a nice day,
Andy J
Leo Versola
Well-known member
My .02 - I agree and that's what I ended up doing... My philosophy is don't put off till tomorrow what you can do today. If you don't need to do it today, then go ahead and wait until you 'need' to do it. And 'needing' to do it can mean anything from paid projects to sheer impatience...
Besides, you can always sell your gear and in most cases, it will have ended up costing you far less than renting it for the same period of time.
Cheers,
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Whoa Andy, no idea how business works? So all of those unsuccessful companies like Apple, Sony, Panasonic, Canon and Nikon have been doing it wrong all of these years? I guess I should tell them that they are missing the boat, they should be trumpeting their products years in advance of when they ship them. Steve Jobs will be all over this, what has he been thinking? Uh, yeah, good plan.
You obviously didn't read my post very carefully before commenting on it. Where did I say that I did not think that RED would deliver on the Scarlet? Oh there, where I said, "I know that RED has every intention of releasing it"? You need to learn how to read and process information in order to comment on it.
I understand about buzz and marketing, I have worked with top creatives at Chiat-Day, Grey and BBDO on internal and external projects for large multinational clients. I took marketing at school, regularly read Boards and Ad Age, I have at least a fundamental understanding of marketing.
What RED is doing is inciting a lot of foamers to foam more and pissing off a lot of what could be legitimate customers for their products. Whether or not that strategy will be successful is not really for you or I to say, we are don't work at or for RED. As the price ranges on the Scarlet rise for all of the options and sensor sizes, the clientele for those $17 to $30k camera packages rises commensurately from no budget hobbyists to professionals who may want to buy 20 cameras at a time. The fact is that RED's questionable marketing is alienating a lot of potential clients. I also find it amusing that a lot of buzz and mystery factor about the Scarlet has been stolen by cheap DSLRs from, yep, you guessed it, the Japanese companies that don't announce their supposed products years ahead of time, then change the specs and price on a monthly basis.
The more professional RED consumers have been becoming more and more disenchanted with RED's marketing strategy and other industry players have actually gone from fearing RED as a game changer to viewing them as something of an amateur hour, not for the technology but definitely from a marketing and publicity standpoint. Time will tell and I may be there right beside you in line for a Scarlet. Someday.
Dan
You obviously didn't read my post very carefully before commenting on it. Where did I say that I did not think that RED would deliver on the Scarlet? Oh there, where I said, "I know that RED has every intention of releasing it"? You need to learn how to read and process information in order to comment on it.
I understand about buzz and marketing, I have worked with top creatives at Chiat-Day, Grey and BBDO on internal and external projects for large multinational clients. I took marketing at school, regularly read Boards and Ad Age, I have at least a fundamental understanding of marketing.
What RED is doing is inciting a lot of foamers to foam more and pissing off a lot of what could be legitimate customers for their products. Whether or not that strategy will be successful is not really for you or I to say, we are don't work at or for RED. As the price ranges on the Scarlet rise for all of the options and sensor sizes, the clientele for those $17 to $30k camera packages rises commensurately from no budget hobbyists to professionals who may want to buy 20 cameras at a time. The fact is that RED's questionable marketing is alienating a lot of potential clients. I also find it amusing that a lot of buzz and mystery factor about the Scarlet has been stolen by cheap DSLRs from, yep, you guessed it, the Japanese companies that don't announce their supposed products years ahead of time, then change the specs and price on a monthly basis.
The more professional RED consumers have been becoming more and more disenchanted with RED's marketing strategy and other industry players have actually gone from fearing RED as a game changer to viewing them as something of an amateur hour, not for the technology but definitely from a marketing and publicity standpoint. Time will tell and I may be there right beside you in line for a Scarlet. Someday.
Dan
Hi Dan, I think Andy thought you implied it here:
"Thanks for the good belly laugh this morning. What? Wait, you mean you were serious and weren't joking? Oh boy! http://tinyurl.com/7af3u " - that links to a definition of vaporware, something that is never released.
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
That was just me being a smartass.
In my second post, I thought I clarified my definition of vaporware. Obviously RED will release the Scarlet. The $64,000.00 question is when and how much will it really cost. They have been vague and coy about exactly what will be needed to actually make a Scarlet a usable product. They recently announced that the development schedule was being slowed down due to the economy. So who knows when you can buy a Scarlet? That to me is vapor, something you can see but cannot hold in your hands.
Dan
In my second post, I thought I clarified my definition of vaporware. Obviously RED will release the Scarlet. The $64,000.00 question is when and how much will it really cost. They have been vague and coy about exactly what will be needed to actually make a Scarlet a usable product. They recently announced that the development schedule was being slowed down due to the economy. So who knows when you can buy a Scarlet? That to me is vapor, something you can see but cannot hold in your hands.
Dan
And that was my point originally. I don't know if the Scarlet will become vaporware or not. A lot of people thought the Red One would become vaporware, but it is here and performing admirably (from what I've heard in my circle from people who have used it out in the field). However, there is no set date when the Scarlet will come out. You most definitely be waiting more than just a couple of weeks. The HPX-170, especially with the cheaper P2 cards coming out this month, is as viable an option as anything else that is available out there right now.
If you're just wanting to play around and you can do without a camera now, then fine, wait for the Scarlet. If you have a project that is coming up or you're looking to forge ahead into the world of video production, I suggest you get an HPX-170 and learn it inside and out before you go out on that first project.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Sound advice.
Dan
Dan
Not necessarily. I am certainly not looking to just play around, but this isn't the only thing I do, and I am certainly not sitting here waiting around as another of your posts suggests. If you would like to give advice, I would appreciate it, but without the "smartass" attitude.
Back to the OP.
For music videos, the HVXs and HPXs give us the versatality of recording long form on higher capacity cards.
The MarkII is great for sit down interviews. But I've found it a bit limiting when wanting to just move on different scenes and quick setups that we've encountered during videos and concerts. As far as canon glass on HPX and Letus gives you nice look, but I have a lot of Nikon lenses so that is what I use primarily. With Letus extreme, the setup is heavier than a 5D but if you use enough lights, you can move quicker with that HPX Letus setup over 5d because you at least get manual control even when just deciding to go free with camera during your music video shoot
But the 5d, if yoursubject is not gonna move a lot gets you that superb sensor DOF. Unfortunately music videos are unpredicatable and require a lot of moving.
D. Alfredo Solares
ANODIZE
Northeast Producer/Manager
Skinny Crow Music, Inc. (ASCAP)
www.anodizeband.com
dennis@anodizeband.com
For music videos, the HVXs and HPXs give us the versatality of recording long form on higher capacity cards.
The MarkII is great for sit down interviews. But I've found it a bit limiting when wanting to just move on different scenes and quick setups that we've encountered during videos and concerts. As far as canon glass on HPX and Letus gives you nice look, but I have a lot of Nikon lenses so that is what I use primarily. With Letus extreme, the setup is heavier than a 5D but if you use enough lights, you can move quicker with that HPX Letus setup over 5d because you at least get manual control even when just deciding to go free with camera during your music video shoot
But the 5d, if yoursubject is not gonna move a lot gets you that superb sensor DOF. Unfortunately music videos are unpredicatable and require a lot of moving.
D. Alfredo Solares
ANODIZE
Northeast Producer/Manager
Skinny Crow Music, Inc. (ASCAP)
www.anodizeband.com
dennis@anodizeband.com
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Sorry for agreeing with what I saw as a good recommendation from subtle inspiration. Since you seem to not be able to divine that from my post, here is my advice. Get off your ass and buy a camera that you can buy now and shoot whatever it is you are going to shoot. Waiting for a camera that nobody knows if and when and at which price it will come to market at is stupid.
Clear enough advice?
Dan
Clear enough advice?
Dan
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I forgot to comment on glidecam. I find a 5D on a stabilizer like a Seadytracker extreme to be a little awkward in ergonomics than a HPX + Adapter but I am a big guy. I feel I can control it easier on a stabilizer if it's a bigger rig wether it's steadycam or fig rig, the 5D I guess we're just not used to following in linear tracking motion with a DSLR, the balance feels unusual for me.
And I say get a camera now and make some money with it. When the Scarlet finally comes out, sell the one you get now. Keep working on your people and shooting skills.
D. Alfredo Solares
ANODIZE
Northeast Producer/Manager
Skinny Crow Music, Inc. (ASCAP)
www.anodizeband.com
dennis@anodizeband.com
And I say get a camera now and make some money with it. When the Scarlet finally comes out, sell the one you get now. Keep working on your people and shooting skills.
D. Alfredo Solares
ANODIZE
Northeast Producer/Manager
Skinny Crow Music, Inc. (ASCAP)
www.anodizeband.com
dennis@anodizeband.com
wedieyoung
Active member
Dude, seriously. I wouldnt trust in 1 censor with a bauyer capturing mode. I rather prefer to go with 3 ccds 
.
.Juergenheinemann
New member
Going hpx
Going hpx
I as well have been torn between the hpx /hmc / 5dmk2. But after reading this thread I am deffinatly going hpx. I had a hvx and loved it. Built like a tank! As for scarlet... Let's be real. It not out. Who realy knows when it's comming out. And the guesstimated price that I've heard of 3,000 ish dollars probaly won't stick. Ontop of that. It's just for the body. Remember, you still need lenses and all the gack to
make the thing work. You're easily up to around eight or ten grand by the time you've got all you need. Plus... I've worked on several features along side the red one. The last beign the new Hughes bros. Movie Book of Eli. You need an army of a.c. To run the thing. Buy what you KNOW is right and what is going to work. The site name says it all. DVX. And what's the new version of that? HPX.
Going hpx
I as well have been torn between the hpx /hmc / 5dmk2. But after reading this thread I am deffinatly going hpx. I had a hvx and loved it. Built like a tank! As for scarlet... Let's be real. It not out. Who realy knows when it's comming out. And the guesstimated price that I've heard of 3,000 ish dollars probaly won't stick. Ontop of that. It's just for the body. Remember, you still need lenses and all the gack to
make the thing work. You're easily up to around eight or ten grand by the time you've got all you need. Plus... I've worked on several features along side the red one. The last beign the new Hughes bros. Movie Book of Eli. You need an army of a.c. To run the thing. Buy what you KNOW is right and what is going to work. The site name says it all. DVX. And what's the new version of that? HPX.
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Spartacus
Veteran
Funny, I´m more and more convinced, the 5D is the way to go ATM. Owning the HVX and a 20D (meaning Canon glass) may influence that thinking.
And I´m actually pretty sure RED will deliver, but they will pobably (have to) offer less options.
A 3K$ cam isn´t THAT appealing anymore with all the VDSLRs available allready, but EVERYONE considering to buy a HPX/EX1/EX3 style camera, would rather spend that amount of cash on a tricked out (as in "made for video work") 2/3" RED Scarlet, than fiddle around with a pimped 5D or similar.
My 2c... :beer:
alexdias
Well-known member
I kinda agree with Spartacus remarks. But the Scarlet is not yet, so if you have to choose to buy 'one' camera at this time the HPX seems to be the the best choice.
Certainly the situation will be very different in 6 months with the Scarlet around and both Canon and Nikon offering new products. The shallow DOF for HD video is the new game in town and adaptors will be a thing of the of past.
Certainly the situation will be very different in 6 months with the Scarlet around and both Canon and Nikon offering new products. The shallow DOF for HD video is the new game in town and adaptors will be a thing of the of past.
wgzn
Veteran
not to take this thread further off course but:
if anyone thinks they will be able to order and take delivery of any model of scarlet before the end of this year, id call them extremely optimistic if not delusional.
and again, like dan, im VERY excited and anxious to see how the scarlet eventually flushes out. but if i were making purchase decisions regarding work in this calendar year, a scarlet wouldnt even enter the discussion.
but i digress, the subject of this thread is the 5D not the scarlet
there is no such thing as a "retail" red ANYTHING. last i contacted the folks at red (that was about 4 months ago the reality may have changed by now), there was still a 6 month wait from payment to delivery on a red ONE. and to me "retail" means hand over money and walk out with item.
if anyone thinks they will be able to order and take delivery of any model of scarlet before the end of this year, id call them extremely optimistic if not delusional.
and again, like dan, im VERY excited and anxious to see how the scarlet eventually flushes out. but if i were making purchase decisions regarding work in this calendar year, a scarlet wouldnt even enter the discussion.
but i digress, the subject of this thread is the 5D not the scarlet
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