HPX170 with adapter vs. Canon 5D mkII ?
- Thread starter matt9b
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wgzn
Veteran
"best" is a subjective term. but id say the workflow with the DSLR would be a lot more work.
plus glide cam and other stabilizers are built for the shape and weight of a video camera so the DSLR may cause headache there as well...
but then again, unless you have a remote follow focus, the adapter on the stabilizer may be a problem...
plus glide cam and other stabilizers are built for the shape and weight of a video camera so the DSLR may cause headache there as well...
but then again, unless you have a remote follow focus, the adapter on the stabilizer may be a problem...
Thanks wgzn, I was forgetting about the follow focus issue - the 5D might almost solve that issue, but it can only do 30fps.
I was in fact about to get the HPX170 when I just noticed the 5D mkII was out on google the other day - always wanted the mkI, but now the mkII is out with HD video I'm struggling to find reasons to get the HPX170!
My suggested work flow will be to: film using canon 5d mkII , and convert to 60i/24p etc as per my preferences, by using twixtor or something like this.
Obviously I need to choose the best options for the image/film quality. I just can't believe I'm thinking of using an SLR camera to film on. Does it really use the full frame sensor to film?
I'm open to everyone's thoughts..
The shape of the DSLR has nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't work with glidecams/steadicams as easily as small sensor camcorder. In fact, the DSLR + lens in many cases is lighter.
When shooting a 5D2, or HMC+adapter, you are working with very narrow DOF, that in and of itself makes flying the camera so much harder.
The 5D2 will kill the HPX+adapter in indoor/lowlight. That is the biggest advantage of going DSLR.
When shooting a 5D2, or HMC+adapter, you are working with very narrow DOF, that in and of itself makes flying the camera so much harder.
The 5D2 will kill the HPX+adapter in indoor/lowlight. That is the biggest advantage of going DSLR.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I have the HPX170 and like it.
I am ordering the 5D MKII for a single project, if I like it, I will keep it. If something better hits the market soon, I will dump it and move on.
Two totally different tools for two different workflows. How experienced are you at production? I would say that the 5D MKII can be used to make really great professional quality work if you know what you are doing and don't mind a really inconvenient and convoluted workflow. As a video production tool, the 5D MKII is really hobbled by some real inconveniences.
I am doing a shoot next week for a large corporation. I will be shooting half a dozen 20-30 minute interviews, then handheld b-roll for the afternoon. One man band shoot, I have to handle lighting, camera, sound on top of producing the overall project, I am the writer, editor as well. Thankfully I have an interviewer to do the interviews while I shoot them.
In the scenario above, the 5D MKII would be a nightmare, not the right tool for the job at all.
I am shooting a doc on the road in June. The subject and myself traveling for a few weeks in Europe. Need stills, it is my own project and an artsy project where I have a lot of latitude about when and where I shoot. Some interviews but mostly lifestyle, b-roll, lots of stuff in low light. 5d MKII seems a perfect fit and will give me the low light and shallow DOF capability where I want it and I am in control of most of the shoot parameters.
Just depends on how in control of the situation you are shooting in, how much time you have and how skilled and patient you are. The 5D MKII lacks any variable frame rate capacity which I will really miss but I can do without it. For the personal doc, I care much more about "the look" and the 5D MKII will give me "the look" that the 170 never could.
Dan
I am ordering the 5D MKII for a single project, if I like it, I will keep it. If something better hits the market soon, I will dump it and move on.
Two totally different tools for two different workflows. How experienced are you at production? I would say that the 5D MKII can be used to make really great professional quality work if you know what you are doing and don't mind a really inconvenient and convoluted workflow. As a video production tool, the 5D MKII is really hobbled by some real inconveniences.
I am doing a shoot next week for a large corporation. I will be shooting half a dozen 20-30 minute interviews, then handheld b-roll for the afternoon. One man band shoot, I have to handle lighting, camera, sound on top of producing the overall project, I am the writer, editor as well. Thankfully I have an interviewer to do the interviews while I shoot them.
In the scenario above, the 5D MKII would be a nightmare, not the right tool for the job at all.
I am shooting a doc on the road in June. The subject and myself traveling for a few weeks in Europe. Need stills, it is my own project and an artsy project where I have a lot of latitude about when and where I shoot. Some interviews but mostly lifestyle, b-roll, lots of stuff in low light. 5d MKII seems a perfect fit and will give me the low light and shallow DOF capability where I want it and I am in control of most of the shoot parameters.
Just depends on how in control of the situation you are shooting in, how much time you have and how skilled and patient you are. The 5D MKII lacks any variable frame rate capacity which I will really miss but I can do without it. For the personal doc, I care much more about "the look" and the 5D MKII will give me "the look" that the 170 never could.
Dan
NC17z
Well-known member
Nobody wants to point out ugh...cAn't control shutter speed/angle during video. You already know about 30p, so be prepared to increase the tempo of the song for the artist to sync to. You play it back at 24p it's in sync. Oh here's another Con Rolling Shutter. Go look at some live videos shot with Canon on YouTube of Nine Inch Nails. As soon as the lighting flashes/changes/strobes the rolling shutter goes crazy. I placed my order for the Hpx as soon as I saw that nightmare.
Thanks for pointing out the NC17z, I found the vid.
So, Pro/s Cons List:
Canon d5 mkII:
Automatic Follow Focus (presumably which you can turn on or off)
Good in Low Light
Full 35mm Frame
Smaller
Memory cards are cheap (£80 for 16GB)
can't control shutter speed
only 12 min one-shot running time
only 30p (but can use twixtor to alter this - I would just batch convert all up to 60fps using twixtor. Then do my edits in Vegas. Then export the entire thing to 24p in vegas)
HPX170:
No follow focus - would need additional follow focus gear
Not so good in low light
Larger
Memory Cards are expensive (eg. £500 for 16GB)
Film-like gamma (assuming this from videos on youtube?)
Native 24p and 60i
Canon d5 mkII:
Automatic Follow Focus (presumably which you can turn on or off)
Good in Low Light
Full 35mm Frame
Smaller
Memory cards are cheap (£80 for 16GB)
can't control shutter speed
only 12 min one-shot running time
only 30p (but can use twixtor to alter this - I would just batch convert all up to 60fps using twixtor. Then do my edits in Vegas. Then export the entire thing to 24p in vegas)
HPX170:
No follow focus - would need additional follow focus gear
Not so good in low light
Larger
Memory Cards are expensive (eg. £500 for 16GB)
Film-like gamma (assuming this from videos on youtube?)
Native 24p and 60i
Spartacus
Veteran
I believe you´re messing up "follow focus" with "autofocus".
If you want to do a lot of controlled rackfocusing, a followfocus with markers will almost become mandatory. Autofocus is sth you don´t want to use in most professional projects.
With a steadycam this also means using a wireless remote followfocus (do a search for "hocus focus" here), though you can live without, if you can work with the limitations.
You also didn´t mention which adapter you would´t use with the HVX, some cost as much as the 5D alone...
And P2 has become a lot cheaper since NAB, check the new cards...
If you want to do a lot of controlled rackfocusing, a followfocus with markers will almost become mandatory. Autofocus is sth you don´t want to use in most professional projects.
With a steadycam this also means using a wireless remote followfocus (do a search for "hocus focus" here), though you can live without, if you can work with the limitations.
You also didn´t mention which adapter you would´t use with the HVX, some cost as much as the 5D alone...
And P2 has become a lot cheaper since NAB, check the new cards...
canon 5d mkII footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOHO_EphELA&fmt=22
hpx170 footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvdI5qZXK5g
hpx170 footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvdI5qZXK5g
Cheers Spartacus,
It's the HPX, not HVX I'm looking at. I would be using a cinemek G35 adapter.
The P2 card price I mentioned is a new one: http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=p2+card
NC17z
Well-known member
Please, I beg you. Do not use the test footage found on youtube in order to help your decision. Please review the 100s upon 1000s of music videos that show up on all the music telvision channels such as MTV and MTV2 everyday, there you'll find videos shot with the HVX200 and now the HPX170 all day long. I have so many friends that have tried the Canon route and have failed. They tried to achieve everything in one simple purchase but fell short ten times over.
Want great looking music videos, look at what some of the pros did with a DVX100 and HVX200 on this forum... you'll loose your mind. Noah Shulman Hiro
Want great looking music videos, look at what some of the pros did with a DVX100 and HVX200 on this forum... you'll loose your mind. Noah Shulman Hiro
puredrifting
Major Contributor
You just have to realize that shooting video on the 5D MKII is very limited. If you can work within its limitations, you can get great stuff but the 170 is MUCH more flexible and professional as a video tool. In my mind, music videos are lit with a full crew, usually on a stage so the low light capability of the Canon wouldn't really benefit you there. Shallow depth of field is useful but overrated and you can get shallow depth of field with the 170 by using a 35mm adapter.
Dan
Dan
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Thanks NC17z, I'm looking at Noah Shulman's work now, it looks great. So I take it he uses the HVX200 and DVX100?
Out of curiousity, does anyone decent UK music video producers?
Thanks everyone for the advice. I was about to bite the bullet and get an HPX171.
Just before clicking the 'buy' button... I checked out RED.com, its been a while since I was on there. I noticed they now have a new line of RED cameras planned for release very soon. They all wipe the socks off the HPX170! If I was to get an HPX170, its value would drop as soon as the scarlet came out in a couple of months. I have decided to wait and get the RED scarlet instead.
To be honest, I'm a bit surprised no one mentioned it.
Just before clicking the 'buy' button... I checked out RED.com, its been a while since I was on there. I noticed they now have a new line of RED cameras planned for release very soon. They all wipe the socks off the HPX170! If I was to get an HPX170, its value would drop as soon as the scarlet came out in a couple of months. I have decided to wait and get the RED scarlet instead.
To be honest, I'm a bit surprised no one mentioned it.
Then you'll end up waiting instead of doing.
I suggest you get the HPX170 and start shooting.
Not really - sometimes patience is a virtue- especially if waiting a matter of weeks can get a camera 10 x better for half the price, or 1000 x better for the same price (Heck, the new RED cameras are in the league of $100,000 panasonic's and can rival motion picture cameras). You will end up "doing" FAR more..
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