HPX170 straight to ext. hard drive?

Y

yetti

New member
i am looking in to purchasing an HPX170, and i am wondering if i can shoot straight to a lacie 500 gb rugged drive? this would negate the p2 cards and the price that comes with them.

i've read about the FS-100 but haven't been able to discern if this IS a standalone hard drive or if it can be used as a way point between the camera and an ext. drive. i've seen that it can go straight to a laptop but lugging around a 17" MBP seems like a task. the only thing i can imagine that would make this not work is the inability to have a running software on the lacie drive to recognize it as recording medium or the power supply.

also, can you use a macbook pro as a monitor via firewire using quicktime for this camera?
 
The FS-100 is an external disc recorder. It reads the data streaming to it from the Firewire output and writes that data to its disc, either as .mov files or simulating the mxf organization of a p2 card so, when you open it on a computer, you can import the files to your NLE.

You cannot simply plug in any HDD to the HPX170 have it write the data to the HDD. The FS-100 has a lot of hardware inside that a normal HDD doesn't, hence why it is such a useful and unique tool.

You can, however, offload a used P2 card via the HPX170 (as normally for short shoots) to a firewire or USB drive. The HPX170 does not supply power for the drive, so you need to resolve that need some other way. The drive is formatted specifically by the camera to do this. The USB offload cannot verify the footage transfer, while the FW can. You can do that about 15 times, assuming there is enough space on the HDD. Each time the card is dumped, the drive will
create a new partition, which will appear on your computer like separate P2 cards.

I have and shoot with both p2 cards and the fs-100. Honestly, at this point, if you can buy a few of the new E-Series P2 cards, I would recommend going that route. The FS-100 is a great tool, but its also an investment that has lots of technical limitations which P2 does not. I find powering the drive and the extra weight on the camera body a big turn off, and environmental limitations (rain, snow, etc) to be a big drain on using it. It has the advantage of memory size, but with the 64gb E-Series P2 cards coming out in August, the gap is quickly shrinking. I know recently Focus Enhancements announced the FS-100 being sold for as low as $1000 new (or somewhere there abouts) but in my mind, unless you are shooting studio interviews and dont want to dump mid shoot, or have a really tight price point, P2 is the way to go.

You can use a MBP to monitor the camera, though I am unsure if you can do it through quicktime alone. You can record direct to computer using FCP, or Scopebox, or OnLocation (which is on the Windows side of things). There may be a few other options out there, though ScopeBox is best suited in my opinion for an OSX based monitor. Just be sure to calibrate the screen as best you can and realize it wont replace a good production monitor.
 
grimrebes said:
You can use a MBP to monitor the camera, though I am unsure if you can do it through quicktime alone. You can record direct to computer using FCP, or Scopebox, or OnLocation (which is on the Windows side of things). There may be a few other options out there, though ScopeBox is best suited in my opinion for an OSX based monitor. Just be sure to calibrate the screen as best you can and realize it wont replace a good production monitor.
Click to expand...

Actually, OnLocation is bundled with Adobe Premiere and as of CS4 runs on a Mac.
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/onlocation/
 
thanks grimrebes

You can, however, offload a used P2 card via the HPX170 (as normally for short shoots) to a firewire or USB drive. The HPX170 does not supply power for the drive, so you need to resolve that need some other way. The drive is formatted specifically by the camera to do this. The USB offload cannot verify the footage transfer, while the FW can. You can do that about 15 times, assuming there is enough space on the HDD. Each time the card is dumped, the drive will
create a new partition, which will appear on your computer like separate P2 cards.
Click to expand...

regarding that. now i've read that you can dump a full p2 card and simultaneously switch to another and keep recording. if you have 2 that is. and then just keep bouncing back and forth from p2 card to p2 card till you are done shooting. this doesn't rob the camera of processor power? seems like if it was outputting all that information while also taking in all that new information you'd have hiccups in the new or transferring footage.

i don't do much studio interviews but i like to get as much footage as possible in any single day. being low budget but aware of continuity and the inability to get a studio this seems like a nice feature. "tapeless" filming has been why i haven't switched over yet. with a tape you know just how much footage you have left.
 
You cannot offload and shoot at the same time. To offload the camera goes into either a USB Disk, FW Disk, or FW host mode, as opposed to a VTR (MCR on P2) or Camera mode. So no, you cannot offload footage and continue shooting, unless you have 2 or more cards and offload one card on a computer while rolling on another in the camera. My 16 gb card takes about 20 minutes to offload onto my external drive from the camera... Which is 40 minutes of 24pNative 720p footage. 80 minutes on a 32 gb card, which runs you about $600 (for an E-Series Card) currently. Together thats 120 minutes, aka 2 hours. Not bad in my opinion for runtime before a data dump.
 
also what is this i've read about the E-series cards having a shorter lifespan. is that why they are cheaper?

got this from AValive.com about the 32gb E P2 card

The new E Series P2 cards are designed to provide highly reliable content recording over a number of years. When recorded once daily, at full capacity (100%), the cards are reusable for up to five years; when used at half capacity (50%), the cards will continue to record for up to 10 years or longer. A notification is given (in the camcorder’s LCD/viewfinder or the P2 recorder’s display) as the card approaches the end of its life cycle. Details of the card’s remaining usable life cycle can also be displayed and tracked on a computer via the P2 formatter software (available for download on www.panasonic.com/broadcast).
Click to expand...

i will definitely fill 2 32gb cards multiple times in a shoot, let alone in a day. OCD about doing 15+ takes to get the perfect take and for editing choices. now seeing as i don't film every day will this balance out? are these cards like laptop batteries? you only get so many cycles till they die?

and are they out yet? B&H still are "accepting orders" but other sites say "in stock and ready to ship". is it just that B&H has a mile long pre-order list? got some music video's coming up in NYC that i would love to have this at. if i'm going to go P2 i'd like to go for the cheaper P2.
 
Try Abel Cinetech... The R and A series cards wont die anytime soon, the E-Series are good for 10,000 cycles, but they cost a whole lot less. Panasonic says if you shoot with them once a day fully they will last you 5 years. There is new software from panasonic to monitor the life of the card, and you will be informed when it is nearing the end of its life. It doesn't have a shelf life from what I have read, and should last a bit longer than a similarly used laptop battery :) There are quite a few threads on this forum where you can read more about them. And if you are careful, you can delete the takes you don't need and save space.

They are cheaper because they use MLC memory, which is just as solid, but less expensive than SLC memory. Check out wikipedia for the technical differences. Short story, it means the MLC memory has a shorter lifespan for a smaller cost, which, unless you are a news agency or shoot and dump your card more than once a day every day, should make the E-series ideal.
 
yea 15+ takes for a guy saying "we've gotta get outa here" in a wacky voice definitely can wear on you. but it's also what separates us from lame youtube skits.
 
yetti said:
also what is this i've read about the E-series cards having a shorter lifespan. is that why they are cheaper?

got this from AValive.com about the 32gb E P2 card



i will definitely fill 2 32gb cards multiple times in a shoot, let alone in a day. OCD about doing 15+ takes to get the perfect take and for editing choices. now seeing as i don't film every day will this balance out? are these cards like laptop batteries? you only get so many cycles till they die?

and are they out yet? B&H still are "accepting orders" but other sites say "in stock and ready to ship". is it just that B&H has a mile long pre-order list? got some music video's coming up in NYC that i would love to have this at. if i'm going to go P2 i'd like to go for the cheaper P2.
Click to expand...

Check this thread for thoughts on the lifespan issue:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=168707&page=3

...and B&H started shipping today.
 
thank you! good stuff to know. i really don't know what i would have done without this site! although in the end its not always the camera but the guy behind it that counts. i just hope my brain still works right after processing all this technical jargon. 85% positive on what i'm going to get now. the last step is going to be to drive to B&H to test out the hpx170 hands on. then leave with a huge smile and a weightless wallet.
 
Hmm.. it's taken me 6 hours to unload 1 gig via FW. I can't get the HPX170 to be detected in USB mode - is there a USB switch or something?
 
There is an option in the last menu to switch between USB, FW Slave, or FW Master (or something like that). It can only be one. Panasonic recommends the USB option as far as I have read.
 
Tobus, tell us more about your setup. Mac or PC? what drive are you dumping to? what software are you using to dump? etc..

- Mikko
 
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