HPX170 First Look

Just out of curiosity (as I'm always curious when it comes to filmmaking), why stop at 60fps? Is there an obstacle that prevents cameras from going up to 120fps (I know RED is capable of it, but would love to see a Panny camera with that option).

Just wondering. Is it something with codecs or engineering or the way it would have to be recorded onto the media?
 
Thinking of selling my DVX and I'll be one of the first to buy these. Question is, I have a 0.7 wide angle for my DVX that I really never use... only there for emergencies. I've gathered so far that the HPX170 is much wider than the DVX but how much so. If it's like 10%+ wider, I'll sell the wide angle too. Less than that and will still keep it for emergencies. 72mm mount on HPX170 will be same as DVX, correct? Same threading?
 
I think 60 fps is the limit due to the incredible amount of information needed to shoot. Correct me if im wrong but the viper shoots 1000fps at 720p.
 
There is no video standard for faster than 60fps. And none of the codecs handles faster than 60fps. Those cameras that can go faster than 60fps (such as Red) don't shoot SMPTE-compliant video. The codec is a hardware chip that's built for video; they'd have to engineer a new non-SMPTE-compliant format for faster-than-60, and that's not likely gonna happen from a primarily video/broadcast company. Sony has a ridiculous ultra-low-res 240 fields per second mode on their FX7, but it has to buffer the footage in RAM and then take extra time after you stop recording to write that out from the buffer to the tape. That's about the only way you can do faster-than-60 and still be video-compliant.
 
markyf said:
Thinking of selling my DVX and I'll be one of the first to buy these. Question is, I have a 0.7 wide angle for my DVX that I really never use... only there for emergencies. I've gathered so far that the HPX170 is much wider than the DVX but how much so. If it's like 10%+ wider, I'll sell the wide angle too. Less than that and will still keep it for emergencies. 72mm mount on HPX170 will be same as DVX, correct? Same threading?
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72mm is 72mm, so it should fit. The HPX170 is pretty darn wide. It's wider than the 200A, which is wider than the 200, which is wider than the 100. They claim 28.5mm, vs. about 32.5mm for the DVX.
 
the hd-sdi out is, according to previous Barry and Jan posts, 8bit. But even uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2 looks better than anything 8bit compressed!
 
Kholi said:
Even wider than the 200A? Slightly or by far? Interesting indeed.
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Yes, wider than the 200A. Take the same chips, but use a 3.9mm lens instead of 4.2, and you get a field of view that's about 7% wider. The 35mm equivalencies that Panasonic quotes are:

HVX200: 32.5mm
HVX200A: 30.5mm
HPX170: 28mm
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, wider than the 200A. Take the same chips, but use a 3.9mm lens instead of 4.2, and you get a field of view that's about 7% wider. The 35mm equivalencies that Panasonic quotes are:

HVX200: 32.5mm
HVX200A: 30.5mm
HPX170: 28mm
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That's very nice. Ignorance incoming: what kind of effect on apparent DOF does the wider lens have?
 
Practically none. You're talking about a minor decrease in focal length, combined with a minor increase in field of view size, so even though there's less telephoto you'll have to be closer to get the same field of view, and the two factors will probably cancel each other out. It's nothing like the difference from 1/3" to 2/3".
 
zergtherobot said:
I think 60 fps is the limit due to the incredible amount of information needed to shoot. Correct me if im wrong but the viper shoots 1000fps at 720p.
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The Viper has no variable frame rates, you're either stuck with (essentially) 24p, 30p, or 60i (all in different flavors and resolutions). If you're looking for excessively high frame rates, the Phantom HD can do up to 1500fps in 720p!!!
 
perfectly centered CCD?

perfectly centered CCD?

Hi Jan & Barry,

The best way to test for a centered CCD will be to screw on a 35mm adapter (i.e. Cinevate Brevis) to the front threads of the HPX170.

Then you'll have to "frame up" the 36x24mm imaging element of the 35mm adapter. With the HVX200, since its CCD is off center relative to the 82mm front threads, when you zoom in the camcorders lens to frame up the adapter's imaging element, you will find that it does not line up perfectly from side-to-side and from top-to-bottom.

This is a dead giveaway that the camcorder's CCD is not centered relative to the front threads of the camcorder's lens. The CCD is slightly "off axis" but enough that an adapter user has to zoom in an additional amount to prevent vignetting.

I'm not sure if this is a quality control issue or a design flaw, but I have not yet encountered an HVX200 that is centered well. The Canon XH-G1 and A1 both have perfectly centered CCDs (the HV20 however, is another story - its CMOS imager is even more off axis than the HVX).

So I'm hoping that when the HPX170 goes into production, care is taken in the construction and design of the camera so that its CCD imaging block is perfectly centered in relation to the 72mm lens.

Please let us know if you're able to look into this issue. Thanks.

Jan_Crittenden said:
Have no idea. Sorry. Have not seen the camera totally close up. How would you test for this?
Thamks,
Jan

I was wondering if you knew: will the CCD sensor block of the HPX170 be perfectly centered relative to the lens?

On the HVX200, the sensor block was slightly off-center, which created an issue when mounting a 35mm adapter to the camera... when zooming in to the adapter ground glass image, the image ended up off center.

This is because the sensor block of the HVX is slightly off center in relation to the lens and filter threads.

Do you know if this issue be addressed in the new HPX170?
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It seems to still be on the chopping block, even with the brochure being from Panasonic . I don't think it will make it (based on some of the issues Jan has raised in previous posts).
 
curranrowe said:
. . . With the HVX200, since its CCD is off center relative to the 82mm front threads, when you zoom in the camcorders lens to frame up the adapter's imaging element, you will find that it does not line up perfectly from side-to-side and from top-to-bottom.

This is a dead giveaway that the camcorder's CCD is not centered relative to the front threads of the camcorder's lens. The CCD is slightly "off axis" but enough that an adapter user has to zoom in an additional amount to prevent vignetting.

I'm not sure if this is a quality control issue or a design flaw, but I have not yet encountered an HVX200 that is centered well . . .
Click to expand...

From what I've heard through a reliable source, this is simply a by-product of a "sub-$6k camcorder" design and QC process. I'm not thrilled about that fact. However, I'm very grateful for all the really cool features that it does offer. If the HPX170 has a perfectly centered CCD, I'd be even happier.
 
I'm torn between waiting for the HPX170 or saving up a little more for the HPX 500. Aside from the fact the 500 has a few more pro features, I really like the lens quality and was wondering if the 170 would have a lens quality closer to that of the 500 than the 200, since I prefer its size and weight.Does anyone happen the know about the quality of the 170's lens?
 
The 170's lens is a similar design to the 200's. The 500 doesn't have a lens, so you can't compare to that -- the 500 uses whatever lens you buy for it.
 
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