HPX170 First Look

brock2621 said:
Gosh an expressSlot card with that would be fantastic! So what is the cheapest field option for recording through SDI? I couldn't find a couple of those companies.
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Depends on what you want to record through SDI. Uncompressed HD? Ain't gonna happen on a laptop, you're talking about needing to store something like 366 megabytes per second (I'm lazy on the math tonight).

Compressed HD? You can use the CineForm Wafian, but last I knew it was about $17,000. Records in CineForm codec to internal hard disk.

MPEG-2 compressed HD? You can use the Convergent XDR when it's available (I don't think it's out yet, is it?) and that's supposed to be about $5,000 and records to CompactFlash cards.
 
Barry_Green said:
It's a hardware function of the LCD panel. The LCD flips, the viewfinder doesn't. At least, that's how it works on the HPX500... not 110% sure about the 170, but I would expect it to be the same.

Think about it this way too: all the text and everything would be flipped, which would be annoying. With it flipping separately, the LCD gets a full-frame flipped display, and the viewfinder shows the regular display including all menus. At least, I think that's the way it works.
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thanks for the response barry. just what i was wondering. now i need to start contemplating changes and what route to go when this new came so if you can provide me any insight on a personal opinion, id appreciate it so here it goes:

right now i shoot with HVX200 with the brevis adapter. one thing i hated was even though i had an external monitor to flip the image, the focus assist functions were still on an upside down viewfinder which at times is fustrating to use.

so first, will the new focus assist functions work with a brevis if you know?

second i was considering getting the cinevate flip so i didnt have to deal with upside down images but now that the LCD can mirror i might pass on it. but with the cinevate flip module which loses 1/2 stop and the new sensors which are 1/2 stop better it seems like it could be a good fit, or without the flip id still get 1/2 stop better through the brevis than i do now with HVX which is also an attractive idea that I like. is there either that you would think that would be a better route?

i like the idea of the flip module so when i go into post i dont have to flip immediatley before i start editing but with raylight mxfx that seems to solve that problem too. so any opinion either way?
 
By all means, get the flip module -- especially with the Brevis. Cinevate says that the flip actually *improves* the overall look of the image.

I cannot stand the upside-down workflow, and I don't know how others put up with it. Kudos to Panasonic and Sony for including the flip feature in their latest releases for those die-hards who simply won't use a hardware flipping adapter, but -- blah. Use a right-side-up adapter, or get the flip module for your upside-down adapter. It's just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better!

And, I believe the plan is to include a P2 card in the box in the USA (don't know about other territories.) But, there's five months or maybe six months before it comes out, so we'll know more when it actually arrives.
 
What does the LCD look like? Has the resolution been improved over the HVX 200. How about out in the sunlight? Does it compare with the Sony EX?
 
Tzedekh said:
I have to ask, if it's 8-bit 4:2:2 coming out of HD-SDI, what's the advantage over recording to P2 -- an uncompressed signal?
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Uncompressed and full raster. DVCPRO-HD is compressed 1440x1080 (or 1280x1080); HD-SDI is uncompressed 1920x1080 @ 4:2:2.
 
what is the disadvantage of not being a 10 bit HD-SDI? Does it show in the image quality? Why not 10 bits ? isn't it just another algorithm so software?



edit : I am wrong it is hardware, another AD converter, probably a 10 bits is much more expensive
 
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I would love to get an answer about if the camera is going to be PAL/NTSC switchable.

Cause that should mean that the PAL countries can at last shoot 24p.

- Derrick
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
what is the disadvantage of not being a 10 bit HD-SDI? Does it show in the image quality? Why not 10 bits ? isn't it just another algorithm so software?



edit : I am wrong it is hardware, another AD converter, probably a 10 bits is much more expensive
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It is hardware, yes. 10 bit gives you finer shades of color and grays, less gradients. 10 bits is better. But the only sub-$10,000 camera that offers 10 bits is the EX1. The HPX500, XLH1, XLH1S, XLG1, and now HPX170 all are 8-bit. The HPX170 is far and away the least expensive of that group, so I can almost understand, but I think everyone would always prefer 10-bit if possible.
 
But is it really visible the difference between 10 and 8 bit or just on paper/spec. ?


Barry_Green said:
It is hardware, yes. 10 bit gives you finer shades of color and grays, less gradients. 10 bits is better. But the only sub-$10,000 camera that offers 10 bits is the EX1. The HPX500, XLH1, XLH1S, XLG1, and now HPX170 all are 8-bit. The HPX170 is far and away the least expensive of that group, so I can almost understand, but I think everyone would always prefer 10-bit if possible.
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Cees Mutsaers said:
But is it really visible the difference between 10 and 8 bit or just on paper/spec. ?
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Under extreme color correction it would be visible. But frankly, as a practical matter, nobody's recording HD-SDI anyway, it's a tiny little niche. HD-SDI is great for monitoring, professional monitors have HD-SDI inputs, etc.

Is it a big deal? For most people? Not really. Is it better to have 10 bits? Of course. If you're the guy who's trying to extract the very highest quality out of an HD-SDI recording for ultimate compositing work or whatever, then yes it might make a difference to you -- but then again, what would you be doing shooting on a $5,000 1/3" camcorder in the first place? Those type of projects should be shot on the Red One.

So, as a practical matter, it's no big deal. Would have been nice, but ... meh.
 
great update to the HVX model - these features are key, particularily the CCD upgrades, ND filters, and focus assists - plus a bunch of very convenient/thoughtful improvements. Sure there's a few more things I'd like to have seen - for example, the ability to shoot AVC-HD to cheaper memory cards like the HMC also included... but... plenty enough to make me ditch the HVX and upgrade. Good stuff.
 
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