How's the Andromeda doing?

AllAroundFilmLV said:
So if I were to spend 3000 on Andromeda, I would still have to hook it up to a laptop? shoot, at that price, it should come with the laptop. and as far as the DVX and HVX, arent they in two different target areas when speaking of what we are trying to record? Or am I just a n00b at this
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The price is down to 2500. 2000 if you're a student or educational institution. I heard some people are using a Mac Mini to record to. Those aren't expensive at all. And yes they are two different animals, but the two instant, never-fail responses when the Andromeda is mentioned is:

1. Tethered = bad. Run-and-gun blah blah blah...

2. For that price get an HVX.
 
Thats true however, if Andromeda puts out @ 4:4:4, which to my understanding is completely uncompressed, isnt that better than buying an HVX? Since MiniDV is compressed? But then again, does the P2 media compress the video at all? and if not, you only have between 2 and 8 GB to work with, which isnt that much to begin with, not to mention, it's HD
 
The HVX uses compression but its a different form of compression than miniDV.

Unless of course you're using the HVX as a miniDV camera.

Theoretically the 4:4:4 is better than what can be produced by the HVX. However i believe the highest quality you can get from that 4:4:4 is 720p. Whereas the HVX produces 1080p.

If you go to the Andromeda forums over at reel-stream.com there's some discussion as to whether the 720p produced by the Andromeda looks better than the HVX's 1080p. I'm of the mind it's subjective. The two cameras provide different looks and its up to you to decide which works better for you.

Then there's the workflow considerations that have to be considered.
 
So, I'm understanding that no two people each with an HVX and Andromeda (1 each) live close enough together to shoot some test footage of the same stuff?

Instead of yelling stats back and forth, it's a lot easier to just see with your own eyes.
 
So, I'm understanding that no two people each with an HVX and Andromeda (1 each) live close enough together to shoot some test footage of the same stuff?

Instead of yelling stats back and forth, it's a lot easier to just see with your own eyes.
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As of right now i guess not.

I'm of the impression that not too many people that regularly frequent this board have gotten the Andromedization done...yet.

Also i don't think anyone's yelling. This is a civil discussion.

I guess if you want to see with you're own eyes the best you can do right now is look at some andromeda footage and then compare it to some HVX footage.

Definately not the best test by any stretch of the imagination but as of right now its about as good as you're gonna get.

Until some DVXUsers step up to the plate.
 
There must be 2 people in either the NYC or Los Angeles metro areas who own either one or the other.

Does anybody here have an Andromeda?
 
Could juan help out with this? Surely he knows who and where his customers are. Maybe he can get some people together. I think comparisons would be the best thing right now.

I'm in Utah for another month, then the Bay Area after that. So if there's an Andromeda user in either spot, I'm down for helping out. I'd even be willing to rent an HVX if someone else can supply the Andromeda.

Cuz this is the only way this HVX/Andromeda business will be laid to rest.
 
MojoTrancer said:
I guess not then. Not trying to put down the HVX or derail this thread. Actually andromeda threads always get derailed. But that wasn't the intention. HVX is a fantastic camera. It's just not what I was expecting after all the hoopla.

But seriously how many times do we have to bring up the tethered thing? Besides, don't you have to stay close to a laptop or p2 drive to keep emptying those cards for the HVX?

Just get a small laptop and long cord. :)
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I guess I'm just not sure what you were expecting. I simply am arguing that saying the HVX200 does look that much better than the DVX100 really isn't accurate if you're looking at the right footage and if you've worked with both cameras.

As for tethering, it can be a pain for some. And with the HVX200 you can offload yes but that's different then actually having to be plugged in to a laptop.

The Andromedia's workflow is also a bit of an issue. For one thing, non-Mac users are screwed so that's a downer. There's also the fact that the footage looks milky and over-exposed out of the camera and has to be heavily CCed before one gets the results one's hoping for. Then there's the whole space thing as a 720p file completely uncompressed is rather huge. It's already hard enough for some to manage HVX200 file when you're spending a minute a gig. I don't know how much more we can handle as far as workflow is concerned.

As for the resolution and 4:4:4 color comparison, I really wish we'd see some side by side comparisons. I know 4:4:4 is going to give you better color but I'm quite curious as to exactly how much better it is. I remember someone did tests between the differences between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 and said he couldn't find any noticible difference even in 1080p (these were green screen tests).

The resolution thing has me puzzled a bit as well. The HVX200 does pixel shifting as does the Andromedia. However, the HVX200 starts out with sharper, true 16x9 pixels so I have trouble figuring out how exactly the Andromedia is going to be sharper.

As far as the images I've seen go, it's hard to say. The RAW files on the website look terrible, milky white and ugly. The CCd ones look much better but how good would an HVX200 look with similar CC? I also find it a bit disconcerting that, of the few images I've seen from people here using the Andromedia, they don't look nearly as good as what I've seen on the website.

I'd love a side by side comparison.
 
MojoTrancer said:
Cuz this is the only way this HVX/Andromeda business will be laid to rest.
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The problem is that they shouldn't be pitched against each other.

Instead the HVX should be andromedized!

Andromeda is an amazing invention, but it'd do far more on an HVX (native 16:9 chips... 1920x1080 at variable frame rates, etc) than it can on the DVX.
 
I know this is a really obvious statement, but when people generalize about the quality of the HVX versus Andromeda DVX or F900 or VariCam based on streamed images it's absolutely maddening.

I have a calibrated 32" HD LCD (native res of 768) that I review my HVX footage on and I'll tell you that it simply blows the DVX away. Colorspace is vastly improved, and resolution increase follows as you'd expect it to.

The thing to do is get these cameras on calibrated multi-format HD monitors recording to their native format (e.g., P2, TIF, DVCPro or HDCam). Has this already happened or am I getting deja vu all over again?

e
 
If you're really worried about being stuck carrying a laptop around with you at all times; you could always get a mac-mini; I hear a lot of Andromeda users use this in conjunction with a touch screen LCD monitor (don't think you need to carry this around at all times). Not as portable as the HVX; but it's still probably a lot more portable than what most camera men use when they shoot reality TV shows like The Amazing Race (lugging these huge machines over their shoulders). Even if you were to carry a large battery or power supply for the mac mini; it would still be more portable I'd think. So I think "run and gun" shooting is still very possible with the Andromeda. Just use the Mac Mini as a belt buckle or something.

Too all those who keep complaining of the price of the Andromeda; it's important to note that the update is currently $2,500 (2,000 for students/education); so I think the total would still be less expensive than purchasing an HVX -- you'd have enough money left for a mac mini (I could be wrong here).
 
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Barry_Green said:
The problem is that they shouldn't be pitched against each other.

Instead the HVX should be andromedized!

Andromeda is an amazing invention, but it'd do far more on an HVX (native 16:9 chips... 1920x1080 at variable frame rates, etc) than it can on the DVX.
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Very true, Barry. You would know better than anyone. But whether the comparison is fair or not, that's the one everyone always mentions. At least if we had something, then maybe the discussions of the Andromeda could finally go in different direction.
 
You know, maybe I can get my school to Andromeda-ize their DVX's, heck, I'm not even sure if they have the A's, I think they have all regular 100's. Would the warranties be up by now?

I might be able to talk them into one realistically, as an experiment, but I doubt they'd even go for it. This Andromeda thing just seems to be between us, DVinfo.net, and a few other message board-based websites.
 
the complaint about offloading p2 cards is kinda funny/sad/ironic - pick one - because that shows that these people never worked with film...how many times would you have to change a roll? for 100' you get a little over a minute for 400' you get about 5 minutes. so in comparison a 60min miniDV cassette versus a really huge roll of film in order to get one hour of film...so what's this about p2 cards?

but i digress...

since there hasn't been much mentioned about the andromeda...was this thread started to that end? a publicity stunt if you will...i kid, i kid...

on a serious note two different cinematographers can get two extremely different looks using the same film stock and camera...so how would you judge a comparison between the HVX and a modded DVX??? i think the important thing would be your end result...what look are you going for? your final format? etc. even in film there are different cameras, different lenses, film stocks, and post workflows...however in the end it's the judgement of the audience that really matters and i doubt the average person can spot the difference between the andromeda and the HVX...but they'll be the first to tell you how weak the story was :)
 
MojoTrancer said:
Very true, Barry. You would know better than anyone. But whether the comparison is fair or not, that's the one everyone always mentions. At least if we had something, then maybe the discussions of the Andromeda could finally go in different direction.
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Well, there IS a reason for that. The HVX vs Andromeda was a debate I had for a long time when looking at stepping up from the DVX.

For what I needed and what my clients wanted, the HVX was the one I chose and I've been very pleased with my choice, as have my clients.
 
novelt said:
the complaint about offloading p2 cards is kinda funny/sad/ironic - pick one - because that shows that these people never worked with film...how many times would you have to change a roll? for 100' you get a little over a minute for 400' you get about 5 minutes. so in comparison a 60min miniDV cassette versus a really huge roll of film in order to get one hour of film...so what's this about p2 cards?
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I love film. I own a K3 16mm and Canon 814AZ Super8. I'm waiting on a super8 to DV transfer to come back as we speak. But I just can't afford to shoot film for my feature. Wish I could.

Just had to throw a pro-film comment out there for a second.

Now back to the unfair comparisons!! :)
 
Jack_Felis said:
You know, maybe I can get my school to Andromeda-ize their DVX's, heck, I'm not even sure if they have the A's, I think they have all regular 100's. Would the warranties be up by now?

I might be able to talk them into one realistically, as an experiment, but I doubt they'd even go for it. This Andromeda thing just seems to be between us, DVinfo.net, and a few other message board-based websites.
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Hey Jack, completely off the topic, but what school do you go to?
 
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