How well does the HMC150 matchup with the HVX200?

P

pcascio

Active member
Are the images very similar in look and detail? Is the HVX sharper? Would the 150 make a good B-cam for the 200?
 
I had both cams for about 3 months and sold the original HVX. The 150 is superior in almost every way, except some of the variable frames per second and timelapse. The HVX also makes greenscreening a little bit more relaxed and easier due to the color info, but it's slight and does not outweight the 150.

Overall the 150 would probably end up being the A cam and the 200 being the B. That is if you have the original, cause the 200a is about the same in terms of low-light, noise and smear. I have never looked back about selling the 200. The ability to shoot to inexpensive SD media, have a lighter and easier to operate cam, and having the low-light capability make this cam so much better than the original HVX. NOw I'm not completely slamming it cause I used it for years and got good results, and YES.. you will be able to match them but don't be surprised if you end up prefering the look of the 150, certainly when light is an issue.
 
I also tend to think that the 150 is a wee bit sharper, mainly when I'm doing the pro-res transcoding. I think that Barry was very upfront about the advantages of the 150 over the original HVX200.
 
Justyn:

Have you compared SD DVDs encoded from the 150 versus the 200 or 170?

Just wondering if you see a difference.
 
I haven't really seen much of a difference. I rember that you said that you did, but I can't say that I have.... But again, I haven't made too many DVDs from my footage as of yet... BUT I"M about to. I have a 3 disk set that I'm about to make and its got both HVX200, 200a and also 150 footage in there. I'll check it out and report back.


David.. what kind of stuff did you see? From my standpoint, the broadcast stuff that I did all looked pretty good. I mastered to DVCPRO50 as we had to deal in SD and I letterboxed the video content but kept the graphics overlays and such in 4x3.. really think it looked nice like that.


cheers
 
Thomas. You were so very helpful too in my decision to buy the 150. I was all over these boards and some of your footage was the clincher in making me get it.. and also Barry's review too.


CHeers... How are you enjoying it?
 
Justyn:

We shoot some sports. There are vertical lines on the walls behind the players.

When we encode that from the 150, they shimmer. Not true of DVCproHD from the 170.

I tested it for a full day and the shimmer was there in the 150 and not the 170.
 
I can see that happening. That's been about the only thing that has given the cam issues. I shot something that had a check pattern and it did kind of pop out as very unnatural and a wee bit strange. I don't shoot a lot of sports anymore, but of course now I'll get one. I did shoot some adventure races but that was with the HVX. I tell you.. to never have to offload another P2 or P2store is work a million dollars to me. In one little metal case I can have 24 hours of shooting and it would cost me about the price of one old 50 minutes worth of DVCPRO HD.
 
David S. said:
Justyn:

We shoot some sports. There are vertical lines on the walls behind the players.

When we encode that from the 150, they shimmer. Not true of DVCproHD from the 170.

I tested it for a full day and the shimmer was there in the 150 and not the 170.
Click to expand...

David:

What was your video capture mode (ie 720P, 1080i)?

What was your final product delivery (ie NTSC DVD)?

What did you do to reduce the shimmer/strobing (a common issue) in the final product?

Just curious,
Jeff

PS - At least we dont have CMOS skewing and shimmering.
 
720/24p
NTSC SD DVD
There isn't a way to reduce the shimmer.

HPX170 didn't have the shimmer. That's why we jettisoned the 150 -- we shoot to deliver on SD DVD.

Love the image on the 150, but for our shooting environment this was an issue we needed to address.
 
That also might be why you had some shimmer. I shot almost all of my stuff at 30p and 60, but I did see some of what you were saying. Overall though 99.9 percent of the time, I had no issues with it and I'm glad to save the cash and be able to buy a 5d or something else to shoot some cinematic looking music videos.
 
David S. said:
720/24p
NTSC SD DVD
There isn't a way to reduce the shimmer.

HPX170 didn't have the shimmer. That's why we jettisoned the 150 -- we shoot to deliver on SD DVD.

Love the image on the 150, but for our shooting environment this was an issue we needed to address.
Click to expand...


There are approximately 20 basic tweaks for reducing strobing/shimmering that came from the introduction of HDV and all the problems with strobing when the HDV codec was introduced.

The 24P AVCHD from the HMC-150 can be essentially strobe free when you learn the techniques.

A quick search will get you going.

However, AVCHD is not DVCPRO HD, and that is of course the pro format. Just saying AVCHD will work, but is more work.
 
To Jeff: thanks, but we also tested at other frame rates with the same issue.

I'm not referring to "strobing." I'm referring to lines on walls that exhibit a shimmer that isn't there with the 170. Been doing this for a bunch of years, and we tried everything we could to eliminate it.

The 170 doesn't exhibit this issue, so we stuck with it.
 
David S. said:
To Jeff: thanks, but we also tested at other frame rates with the same issue.

I'm not referring to "strobing." I'm referring to lines on walls that exhibit a shimmer that isn't there with the 170. Been doing this for a bunch of years, and we tried everything we could to eliminate it.

The 170 doesn't exhibit this issue, so we stuck with it.
Click to expand...

I understand completely sticking with what works.

I should have paid more attention to the tagline on your posts telling what your NLE is. The NLE is just as important as, and just as unique as the different cameras available. I am on Vegas Pro which, out of luck mostly, does not generally introduce any shimmer into resized (HD to SD) AVCHD video. HDV codec video could be a mess though without exactly the right Vegas settings.

Many people don't realize how important it is to select the correct de-interlace method in Vegas to eliminate shimmer. In Vegas you would check the "deinterlace method box" and Vegas will separate the images shown on the even and odd lines into two separate images, resize each of them (to SD), then recreate a new image at the new size where the odd lines all come from one resized image and the even lines all come from the other.

If you don't check the "deinterlace method box" Vegas will resize both the even and odd lines together as if it was one single image.

The above two statements happen regardless of whether the native footage is interlaced or progressive as Vegas (and maybe all NLEs?) treat the video as segmented frames during a resize.

Anyway, enough rambling about Vegas.

Happy shooting.
 
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