How to record an electric guitar when I shoot it being played

Shooter

Shooter

Veteran
Asking here instead of in the audio section. Hoping Jeff M will kick in with other audio-istas.

Need to record (me) playing an electric guitar track for a short film. I need the audio track but thought I may as well shoot it at the same time and use the AF102 as the record device. Dont suggest an external record device please. I dont want the complication for this particular project. ( A 48 hour film comp)

Will use my field mixer and whatever else I need to get the job done though. I have a few mic options including those that I have recorded a concert grand piano with. The music is loud "country rock rythym" Guitar and Drums only.

Guitar is thru a fuzz box to an amp/speaker combo (100watts). Drum machine is mixed into the same amp / speaker combo. There is a mixer in the system for balancing guitar and drum machine levels.

Thoughts...mics, placement, etc...

BTW - room acoustic will be hard / edgy as per my studio space and thats o.k ( club or bar space like). I do want it to feel like a music track though. The shooting of it is just for me..a bonus ( and maybe a youtube moment if I screw it up under the pressure)

I need to keep this simple as I am an audio klutz.
 
Yeah, I'd mike the amp. The sm57 is great for that also other hypercardioidsc can handle high input sound levels (130db) like the Audix SCX-HC which is a great dialog mic and is also recommended for instrument micing, just in case you have a mic like that presently.

The SM57 you can beat the snot out of level-wise and not have to worry about proximity effect, which is great.

Anecdotally, I did a live guitar for a short and I didn't want to suffer sync problems you often see where you KNOW they're not playing that guitar. The sound guy hated doing it live! :)

BandPractice.jpg
 
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Mic the cab is a must. There's the obvious also - don't clip it when you record. You can add effects (delay, chorus, reverb) and compression, gating etc. to really make the track pop in post.
 
Drum machine to channel 1, guitar via mic as mentioned to the other channel - monitor drum machine via earpiece. Getting the balance right in post works well - and gives scope for stereo/panning. 57 near the speaker centre sounds more mellow, towards the edge is harder - select as appropriate to the style. If you can convince him to use as little reverb as possible it will be cleaner - but might mess up his playing so don't push it.
 
Another vote for an SM57 close to the speaker cabinet.

Shooter- what guitar and amp do you use?

Scully- nice Strat! I play a 63 Tele through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe... wish I played more often though...
 
Missing part of the picture on micing the cabinet. Here it is...

Don't just throw the 57 in front of it. Look at the speaker... through the grill cloth if you have to. Start with the mic at the joint of the diaphragm and inner edge of the outer cone. This pic is close to the idea:
recording_miked_amp1.jpg


If you want less fizz, move further out towards outside edge of speaker. (incrementally). if too dark, move back to and if still too dark, tilt it towards center.


Biggest problem folks have is sticking the mic dead center which results in fizz, badly.

regards,
Rob
 
Thanx for all the great advice guys. Mucho appreciato.

I will use one of two guitars. My Farida hollow body Jazz or the AC.s Gibson solid body.

Playing thru a Peavey Cabinet system. There is going to be a lot of fuzz (Zoom FX pedal)

I will see if I can borrow a SM 57.

I guess my Avantone Condenser mics (CK6 and CK7) wont do the job in any ones opinion?is

At this point in time...I wont promise to put up any vid of this.


EDIT: Just checked on price of SN57 mics and they are really inexpensive. May as well buy one for myself.
 
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If you have the time and will, play with what you have and see what sound you get. Take the experimental artistic approach. If it's awful, get the 57.
 
groveChuck said:
Another vote for an SM57 close to the speaker cabinet.

Shooter- what guitar and amp do you use?

Scully- nice Strat! I play a 63 Tele through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe... wish I played more often though...
Click to expand...
'

Thanks groveChuck, it's a 73. I've had it forever. I recently got it refretted as I wore 'em down to fret markers! I don't play enough now either. Man, that 63 tele sounds right!
 
You can use a condenser as well. One of the best sounds I had live was a Studio Projects C1 (cheap LDC mic) right up on the cab of a Fender Vibrolux, screaming loud. The mic added a very nice natural compression... I miss that rig.


Regarding the LDC's you have, they both show good SPL handling ability. Generally (my above example shows there are no rules), an LDC is used a little further back and again, being off axis will kill some fizz. However, the mics you have can handle being up close and it wouldn't hurt to try them as you would a '57. You may, as I did, find an anomaly.

Something else to muddy the water of choice(kidding), much current audio production involves 2 mics, usually a '57 blended with a ribbon mic. Each have their own contribution. If you feel adventurous and find a '57, You can mic the same amp, even the same speaker with two mics, blend the two and find something pretty killer. If you try this though, phase is the monster to kill. I know some tricks to keep it in check if you decide to play this way and if you do, just PM me and I will fill you in.

All the best and as someone pointed out, experimenting is always the #1 rule.
Rob



PS... I would kill for a tele!
 
Sorry I'm late to the party .. but everybody's pretty much right-on. For simplicity's sake, I would
just go with one SM57. You can play with the placement of the mic for the tone you like. Usually
centered on the cone will give you the brightest tone, getting mellower/darker as you go out from the
center.

Place the SM57 about a finger's pinch from the grill cloth. If your field recorder has a limiter/compressor,
you may wish to engage it to keep unexpected peaks from clipping .. although if it's rock .. it's probably
gonna be distorted as it is.

I'll send you a PM with some of our videos that demonstrate stuff.

SM57's are about $100 a pop .. extremely durable, can take high SPL's and are
great for cab mic'ing as well as for snare drums.

jeff
 
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Hey Jeff. Welcome and thanx to you as well.

Time for a play ( with the gear and the guitar) and as mentioned...its about listening and making one self happy.
 
Shooter said:
Hey Jeff. Welcome and thanx to you as well.

Time for a play ( with the gear and the guitar) and as mentioned...its about listening and making one self happy.
Click to expand...

Best wishes on your project. Ironically, the SM57 was designed by a Shure engineer that hated Jazz/Rock .. and yet, it's
been the most popular tracking mic for both genres :-) Even the US military used them because they had the best
ability for listeners to decipher speech over a bad/noisy carrier.

And at $100 bucks .. a great deal.

For a bit of a "bigger" sound, the Sennheiser 421 works well.

jeff
 
Just out of curiousity, why didn't you post this in the Audio section? Definitely an audio question..........

And the SM57 is always my go to for electric guitar/ and cab. That or a ribbon mic stood off 10-12 inches.
 
LOL, there ain't a camera out there that has good audio. Some are just passable. Even the H4n has better pre's than cameras valued in the 5-10 thousand range. It's two different animals.

Cameras are designed to capture images. And many of them do so impressively. But the architechture and footprint needed to put good audio with that would double the size of some cameras.

Hence the need to have someone with great audio gear and knowledge to complement that great video gear you have. Unless people are willing to go backwards and get bigger cameras....then you will have to settle for mediocre to poor sound. And even then still have a audio guy set things up to go into camera.

I am passable with my knowledge of lenses. But I wouldn't tell anyone how to run their camera to get great images. But I do find it strange when camera guys think they can get great audio through their cameras. See where I am going with this train of thought? Audio guys are out there for a reason. You want great audio to couple to your great video/film? Well.........get an audio guy with their own gear, or invest in audio gear and get someone who knows what they are doing to run it.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
Just out of curiousity, why didn't you post this in the Audio section? Definitely an audio question..........

And the SM57 is always my go to for electric guitar/ and cab. That or a ribbon mic stood off 10-12 inches.
Click to expand...

Fair question:

Because I know that I have had great audio advice from particular users of this camera based section of the forum (eg. jmarkham) and I wanted to catch their attention.
(My goto guys)

Audio guys tend to confuse me (and others) ..but video guys I can relate to much more.

That has been the case with this post again and I am now good to get it on with the excelent advice and help proffered.

...and yes...I will record this piece to the AF102..and also...I do know its audio shortcomings (eg mic preamp stage)
 
I could offer an alternative solution. Cubase 6 has stunning amp and cab simulation....pre amp then record clean then mess about with whatever sound you like in post. Some recording purists choke at this idea, until they hear results.
 
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