combatentropy
Veteran
I hear you, Noiz2
How to get that "Sweet" audio
- Thread starter Ashbury
- Start date
Really...
Make your mind up
There is a difference between trying and using any processing tool. Trying it is a way to discover how well it works, if at all. Using it means it was applied to the finished product. If it doesn't make it into the final mix, it isn't used.
I tried the original DigiRack plug-ins that used to be included with older versions of ProTools LE. I never used them on any project because they sucked.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Maybe it's different on the tools you've used, it's pretty much standard operating procedure on Audition:
https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/ho...set=audition--key-techniques--noise-reduction
I'm guessing the OP doesn't have a pro location recordist or access to a broadcast dubbing suite as he was asking for POST advice. In the modern digital world, there are lots of techniques for sweetening or saving audio and it would be good if a few more people would offer some simple advice.
https://helpx.adobe.com/audition/ho...set=audition--key-techniques--noise-reduction
I'm guessing the OP doesn't have a pro location recordist or access to a broadcast dubbing suite as he was asking for POST advice. In the modern digital world, there are lots of techniques for sweetening or saving audio and it would be good if a few more people would offer some simple advice.
Last edited:
DPStewart
Veteran
That Audition video had me shaking my head in embarassment. With the exception of Noise Print - which is a tool employed almost universally by audio restoration software - this is not "professional" methodology. This is a consumer oriented Adobe-centric methodology.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Ha, so Jason Levine, Adobe's 'Worldwide Evangelist' for Audition, is talking bollocks! Interesting... ...and I'm not disagreeing with you BTW.
To be fair, 'prosumer' is exactly where I pitched my answer, rightly or wrongly I assumed the OP doesn't have access to a pro sound recordist and dubbing mixer.
With that in mind, here's another tutorial, this time explaining the four step procedure I mentioned earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x__NthInRs
He might be talking bollocks too, but I used a similar four-step procedure just last week on a poorly recorded VO to good effect. 'Normalise' has it's limitations, of course, and there's no substitute for well recorded, well mixed audio but it can work.
To be fair, 'prosumer' is exactly where I pitched my answer, rightly or wrongly I assumed the OP doesn't have access to a pro sound recordist and dubbing mixer.
With that in mind, here's another tutorial, this time explaining the four step procedure I mentioned earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x__NthInRs
He might be talking bollocks too, but I used a similar four-step procedure just last week on a poorly recorded VO to good effect. 'Normalise' has it's limitations, of course, and there's no substitute for well recorded, well mixed audio but it can work.
Essami
Well-known member
Funny thing is that his actual voiceover on the video sounds nothing like the example in the tutorial!
DPStewart
Veteran
Ok...all I have to say about this one is that if you want that "sweet" beautiful, clear, and natural sound that the OP linked to... then take note of all the steps in this video - and NEVER DO THEM.
I feel like I'm in an episode of "Just Shoot Me".
Liam Hall
Veteran
Funny thing is that his actual voiceover on the video sounds nothing like the example in the tutorial!
Yeah, it's like those camera review videos that look like they were shot by someone's dog.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Really...
Make your mind up
I have tried it on various things including samples for samplers, one thing it does pretty well. I have never used it on dialog for the reasons stated. I have "tried" it on dialog but never "used" it on dialog.
Sorry if that is too complicated. Think of it like this, you "try" eating that mud pie you made as a two year old in the back yard but you don't "eat" it because it was really nasty.
------
I see it's already been said...
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
I don't want this to turn into a food fight.
If what you are doing works for you then more power to you.
There is nothing in what I said that would require the OP to have "a pro location recordist or access to a broadcast dubbing suite". I had the impression that his tracks coming in were decent since he wasn't asking how to repair them but how to make them sound really "VO" like.
I said he should MIX his track with volume automation, that is in the box automation not a big mix stage. Unless your going to a large screen there isn't a lot of need to mix on a mix stage.
One thing that this thread has brought out is something that happens often here because people are coming from very diverse places. The audio world is a BIG field. I'm not sure what professional projects you are working on in Audition. I'n my hunk of the audio world Audition isn't used at all, but I only work in a small slice of the audio world. And of course the OP may be doing a first time hobby project so "professional" advice may be the wrong way to go?
As an informational point.
Long ago "normalising" was a really bad choice for most things because the math inaccuracies cause a gritty nature that really showed up on dialog and made further processing a problem. So if you back a few years you will find big adamant DO NOT Normalize" warnings. This isn't really the case today. The math is really good and the calculations are carried out at high levels so there really isn't the quality issue there was.
I don't use it because it doesn't save me any time. That and I don't do a lot of destructive things to dialog if at all possible. All normalizing does is adjust the over all level. Since I am going to mix the dialog, and by mix I mean adjust the level in many places not combine it with something else (which I will also probably do later), normalizing is pointless. On a more general level other than not exceeding the level in the delivery specs I don't really care what the peak is, I'm adjusting the level as I go so it sounds good and is intelligible. I'm cleaning out gunk and pops and all of that also, so a one click the peak goes to X doesn't buy me anything.
Now if somehow in your workflow normalizing buys you something then maybe it is something you should do. But it is not a normal practice in the workflow of film and video. I could see it as a last step for web or radio maybe if tou have a peak spec you need to hit and you don't want to change your over all mix. But in that case I personally would reach for a limiter instead.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Scott, it was meant in jest, hence the
Well there you go! I accept it in jest :~)
combatentropy
Veteran
I got your sweet-audio how-to video right here:
If you use one-man-band as an excuse, you're just not dedicated enough
Seriously, this other video is a great introduction to the importance of microphone placement:
Michael Carter
Veteran
My "I shoot often on a budget and get good sound" .02:
You need the best mic you can afford and get it placed properly. You need a good recorder and your cables need to be in good shape.
I use an AT 4053B - not ridiculously pricey, but it's a step up from the Rhodes and budget mics - it can really get a voice sounding big and "right in your ear". Keep an eye out for used ones, they're a nice balance of value and higher-end performance. There are a ton of nice-sounding pencil condensors out there, but very few hypers. never used an Oktava but I understand they can be a pain with handling noise.
Mics have different characters, but a widely accepted mic for on-set recording will do wonders for you (the AT, Schoeps, some of the Sennheiser I guess?)
If the mic's not moving and the air's not moving, don't use a blimp (or at least unscrew the front). Those super-airy highs are what gives voices that silky tone. I've found leaving the blimp on but pulling the front can dull down some room noise. If you try that, keep the mic just inside the blimp barrel.
My mic lives in my blimp, so I made sort of a foam rubber donut-thing to support it when packed. I figure the shockmount bands will last longer if they're not working 24-7. Shockmount bands eventually dry out and die, even on pricey AT and AKG studio mounts.
If your mic can't reach the front of your blimp, get an extender for it. Get an XLR-barrel on-off switch and use that. My AT in my blimp, without the extender, is about 3" back from the front. That's three really vital inches - how hard do you fight to get a mic 3" closer on set?? And watch the barrel extenders, even babied in a shockmounted blimp and never disconnected, my first one failed after 2-3 years - huge thumps when moved.
Having a way to post-process sound with plugins really adds that extra sheen. (Not Audacity - something that you can turn knobs and turn effects on and off). If you get a version of ProTools, it ships with a lot of very good plugins. Their EQs are pretty precise and sound decent. But having something with a touch of "vintage" character can really be an ear-opener.
My usual dialogue mix chain:
I generally don't gate; sometimes I use a noise reduction plugin if the location has an overall steady-state noise (actually, that's the one thing Audacity does fairly well).
I'll do a rough levels automation; sometimes, instead of mixing all the on-set dialogue, I'll wait til the edit is locked and do a basic levels mix in my NLE and export just the audio.
Primary EQ to get rid of un-needed lows and shape the voice: digi 7-band or, very often, T-racks vintage EQ. That's a good sounding EQ and cheap. Often you can find sort of nasal-ish midrange frequencies and pull them down, and suddenly a so-so voice sounds 50% better.
For wider sculpting I often add the Massey 3-band EQ (Massey plugins are like fifteen bucks or something and amazing). It's really got something special.
After that, I use the Massey CT-5 compressor. Sometimes I use the Massey 2007 limiter plugin, it's can mojo-up a weaker voice, but you need to watch for any noise-floor issues. Waves Renaissance voice (compressor) is also a plug that works for me and it's very intuitive if you don't get what a compressor is doing. There are, like, 3 million compressor plugins out there, many that emulate vintage stuff - generally for dialogue compression you don't want to go full-on 60's vintage. And you don't want much compression.
If I get dialogue from a hidden lav or something that sounds a little dull, like boomed dialogue with a dead cat, I'll take a shot with the AIR enhancer. I still need a really good enhancer plugin, the AIR is hit and miss. Waiting for Waves to do a $24 deal on their Aphex emulation. Sometimes for a dull track, I'll put Analog Channel on it and try to get some harmonics in the highs.
You need the best mic you can afford and get it placed properly. You need a good recorder and your cables need to be in good shape.
I use an AT 4053B - not ridiculously pricey, but it's a step up from the Rhodes and budget mics - it can really get a voice sounding big and "right in your ear". Keep an eye out for used ones, they're a nice balance of value and higher-end performance. There are a ton of nice-sounding pencil condensors out there, but very few hypers. never used an Oktava but I understand they can be a pain with handling noise.
Mics have different characters, but a widely accepted mic for on-set recording will do wonders for you (the AT, Schoeps, some of the Sennheiser I guess?)
If the mic's not moving and the air's not moving, don't use a blimp (or at least unscrew the front). Those super-airy highs are what gives voices that silky tone. I've found leaving the blimp on but pulling the front can dull down some room noise. If you try that, keep the mic just inside the blimp barrel.
My mic lives in my blimp, so I made sort of a foam rubber donut-thing to support it when packed. I figure the shockmount bands will last longer if they're not working 24-7. Shockmount bands eventually dry out and die, even on pricey AT and AKG studio mounts.
If your mic can't reach the front of your blimp, get an extender for it. Get an XLR-barrel on-off switch and use that. My AT in my blimp, without the extender, is about 3" back from the front. That's three really vital inches - how hard do you fight to get a mic 3" closer on set?? And watch the barrel extenders, even babied in a shockmounted blimp and never disconnected, my first one failed after 2-3 years - huge thumps when moved.
Having a way to post-process sound with plugins really adds that extra sheen. (Not Audacity - something that you can turn knobs and turn effects on and off). If you get a version of ProTools, it ships with a lot of very good plugins. Their EQs are pretty precise and sound decent. But having something with a touch of "vintage" character can really be an ear-opener.
My usual dialogue mix chain:
I generally don't gate; sometimes I use a noise reduction plugin if the location has an overall steady-state noise (actually, that's the one thing Audacity does fairly well).
I'll do a rough levels automation; sometimes, instead of mixing all the on-set dialogue, I'll wait til the edit is locked and do a basic levels mix in my NLE and export just the audio.
Primary EQ to get rid of un-needed lows and shape the voice: digi 7-band or, very often, T-racks vintage EQ. That's a good sounding EQ and cheap. Often you can find sort of nasal-ish midrange frequencies and pull them down, and suddenly a so-so voice sounds 50% better.
For wider sculpting I often add the Massey 3-band EQ (Massey plugins are like fifteen bucks or something and amazing). It's really got something special.
After that, I use the Massey CT-5 compressor. Sometimes I use the Massey 2007 limiter plugin, it's can mojo-up a weaker voice, but you need to watch for any noise-floor issues. Waves Renaissance voice (compressor) is also a plug that works for me and it's very intuitive if you don't get what a compressor is doing. There are, like, 3 million compressor plugins out there, many that emulate vintage stuff - generally for dialogue compression you don't want to go full-on 60's vintage. And you don't want much compression.
If I get dialogue from a hidden lav or something that sounds a little dull, like boomed dialogue with a dead cat, I'll take a shot with the AIR enhancer. I still need a really good enhancer plugin, the AIR is hit and miss. Waiting for Waves to do a $24 deal on their Aphex emulation. Sometimes for a dull track, I'll put Analog Channel on it and try to get some harmonics in the highs.
DPStewart
Veteran
I got your sweet-audio how-to video right here:
If you use one-man-band as an excuse, you're just not dedicated enough
Seriously, this other video is a great introduction to the importance of microphone placement:
You KNOW IT!
Yeah - although basic to a pro, these 2 videos are EXCELLENT for folks who may be new to recording audio.
Thanks Combat!
(Or do I call you Mr. Entropy?)
combatentropy
Veteran
My name is actually Comb a tent ropy.
DPStewart
Veteran
Liam Hall
Veteran
Great post Michael!