How To Get Started and Stay In The Business

[chromeboy007]

I know, I know.. But there's little choice when one has to open one's mouth to make a sales pitch. No one else will do it for me. If I could find a good sales front end person to bring in the work, that would be sheer heaven. But hiring a sales specialist is fraught with the same obstacles as finding a good client--there are so few and the few that are good are already working for the big boys. It's a catch 22!

Try commission only people, or something with a huge social media following, like a local micro marketing agency. All they have to do is tweet about you once a while. A half decent one is still better than no one.

 

[chromeboy007]

"No victor believes in chance."

Hey Jonathan, congratz on your success. Would you call the residential communities industry your niche? Do they contribute to the bulk of your income?

Right now in my city I have been trying to warm into the marketing industry. I have a handful of smaller companies that I have done work for but there are literarly hundreds of them, and they don't talk to each other so I don't seem to get referred to. It seems like I have to knock on their doors one at a time. I wonder how long it took you to establish your name in your niche industry?

 

[chromeboy007]

grove -- actually, Integral went with a competing company initially, a larger national company that I have absolutely zero respect for (is it possible to have less than zero respect? These guys are clowns), which I won't name but they have some big partnerships and some of the worst quality you'll find anywhere. I think student filmmakers in general would produce better pieces, to be honest.

You are not talking about TurnHere, are you?

 

[basspig]

Try commission only people, or something with a huge social media following, like a local micro marketing agency. All they have to do is tweet about you once a while. A half decent one is still better than no one.

How would one advertize for commission-only sales specialists? I haven't had any bites yet. The term "commission only" probably scares people away. Selling the hardest product to sell in the world (video services) and offering commission only, would scare off most any but the most confident sales person.

Networking hasn't worked so far. The number of people in the area is too small. I need to hook into some substantial corporate contracts and have steady work/income for stability. Every month, telephone and electric bills are shut off notices, borrowing from friends and credit cards is only making matters worse down the road.

I've had a couple of shady folks call me for emergency rentals, but I didn't feel comfortable letting my gear out the door with questionable persons. It did make me think about going into the rental business though. Tough business, with cameras that are prone to many subtle problems that may not be apparent in a quick system checkout.

With more cameras on the market that offer decent quality and more people having access to video, the market is only getting worse. It's so damned hard to find that one client out of ten thousand, who was disappointed with the low cost bargain video and is now ready to do some serious work. Every 5-6 years, I find one client like that, but their needs are transitory, so one nice project, a month's work, $2000 in my pocket and then 6 months with not a stitch of work.

So how do I attract sales specialists that understand what I do and are willing to work commission only?

 

[reem12]

I just recently did a corporate photo shoot with my 5d, and while shooting I noticed they had a gentleman from their group video taping seminars with a $100 palm corder that looked like the one I bought for my 12 year old for her birthday. I was shocked at how companies are feeling about using professional videographers now. I crossed over into photography after seeing how photographers where being treated in terms of pay. I will occasionally do a video shoot when the price is good, but the market seem to favor photography at the moment.

 

[chromeboy007]

I just recently did a corporate photo shoot with my 5d, and while shooting I noticed they had a gentleman from their group video taping seminars with a $100 palm corder that looked like the one I bought for my 12 year old for her birthday. I was shocked at how companies are feeling about using professional videographers now. I crossed over into photography after seeing how photographers where being treated in terms of pay. I will occasionally do a video shoot when the price is good, but the market seem to favor photography at the moment.

I'm sure the guy was doing it for free, probably a friend of the presenter's, or an employee or something. With these mini-camcorders they might look ok, but they will sound bad. And without a tripod it probably won't look very good. Companies who are in visually stimulating industries will never risk ruining their brand with low cost solutions like this.

 

[chromeboy007]

How would one advertize for commission-only sales specialists? I haven't had any bites yet. The term "commission only" probably scares people away. Selling the hardest product to sell in the world (video services) and offering commission only, would scare off most any but the most confident sales person.

Try hitting a micro social media specialist. Ask him or her give you a plug in their network once a while, and any business resulting from it he or she gets a cut. This is probably a better way than commission only sales person.

 

[robstar1]

You need to differentiate between a marketing coordinator and sales rep / agent. It's two different jobs and usually two different personality types. It was rare for us to find someone who did both well.

A marketing coordinator can be as simple as someone working part-time even from home who does all the research and initial calls for you. See the beginning of this thread for examples of those calls.

A sales person has the savvy and ability to close deals on your behalf and under your guidance.

Again, as I've posted earlier a gazillion times the research and suspect>prospect>client development process takes years to fully realize and at least 6-12 months to see a return on. Few people can afford to accept a job on commission only when they've got to invest nearly a year to get a paycheck.

A marketing coordinator should be paid hourly or salaried to do the research and then a bonus for getting you an interview / proposal and a nice bonus when you get a job. Small incentives for small successes keep them motivated hopefully but that is a different post for later.

A sales rep is going to need some kind of salary while they get the sales and marketing program launched. Or, you can pay them a "draw" on commission where you "advance" a weekly amount enough to live on then when they land a job you begin to deduct the advances out of the commissions and eventually get to the point where you are paid back and there's enough business in the pipeline to keep them paid. Where you have to be careful is someone who milks the draw and quits before the fruits of their labor pay off for you and them. You may still benefit for their work but you've at least paid for it.

And one other option is hiring away an already established sales rep who is involved with the businesses / industry you want to do business with. Think of a printing sales rep or advertising rep; someone with contacts in companies already. They may be able to bring accounts to you quickly but you'll have to pay them a bit more. If they are a freelance rep with different products you might can add on as another product for them to sell.

Just a few options and all I have time to post at the moment.

Robert

 

[groveChuck]

Regarding tradeshows, a lot of people / ops / producers fall into a relationship with a certain client that provides work, money and contacts that eventually allow them to grow their business. We'll call these clients "Rainmakers"; they pay the bills and are fans of you and your work, not just clients. This usually opens the door to a specific industry they work in.

For us it was the resort and hospitality industry and one client back in 1987 that opened the door for us there. She's still a client today! I enjoyed traveling the world shooting resort commercials so that was our / my focus so we went to and displayed at the shows where resort developers go.

Many people who hired us for years we'd never even met face to face but at the shows we got to meet them. It brought the relationships full circle.

Tradeshows are expensive and at one point we had grown to a 20x30 or 10x40 ft booth that was costing us $20k and up to produce at the main tradeshow. It was a lot of work and a lot of money but we booked 20x that off each show so it paid off.

This is clearly a different level beyond "How To Get Started and Stay In The Business" but if you want the bigger jobs you have to step up to being a trusted professional who understands the client's industry and their clients.

Robert

Robert, thanks for the info! I have one very good rainmaker client, and this has led to connections and projects in other departments within the company, but I haven't been able to leverage my work for them into more work within their industry. Yet. Still trying, though.

But I don't like having too many eggs in one company's/industry's basket.
Experience in an industry is great to have, but diversification is too, as various industries weather recessions differently.

I'm not starting my business, but I'm definitely looking to grow it. While not at the point where I'd put up $20k for a trade show, I think I may pursue this course (notwithstanding your experience, Jonathon).

Regarding stills vs video, (my wife/partner does stills), I find video more lucrative in nearly every area of production with the exception of weddings (excepting the rare $10-$20k wedding video). But I don't do weddings. Usually. I've done two- one for a friend, one for family. But I also never say never.

And as for $100 camcorders, reem12, I have a Fortune 500 company I shoot/edit/produce projects for, but who also sometimes has employees shoot their meetings and events, then I have to make their cr@p look and sound good in post.

 

[dougspice]

How would one advertize for commission-only sales specialists? I haven't had any bites yet. The term "commission only" probably scares people away. Selling the hardest product to sell in the world (video services) and offering commission only, would scare off most any but the most confident sales person.

...

With more cameras on the market that offer decent quality and more people having access to video, the market is only getting worse. It's so damned hard to find that one client out of ten thousand, who was disappointed with the low cost bargain video and is now ready to do some serious work. Every 5-6 years, I find one client like that, but their needs are transitory, so one nice project, a month's work, $2000 in my pocket and then 6 months with not a stitch of work.

So how do I attract sales specialists that understand what I do and are willing to work commission only?

Two things. First, why would you want anything but "the most confident sales person"? I think a quick viewing of Glengarry Glen Ross is in order.

Second, if you want to attract those repeat clients, you absolutely have to offer market differentiation from your competitors. What can you offer that is better than anything your competitors can offer? Is it quality? Speed? Cost? Customer service? A technology? Until you have one or more of those things, or are at least very competitive in more than one category, you're going to find it very difficult to attract consistent repeat business. We call these "clients for life" and have worked hard to develop them. For us, it means offering superior quality, superior customer service, and reasonable cost in an industry that rarely seems to have even one of the above.

 

[chromeboy007]

For us, it means offering superior quality, superior customer service, and reasonable cost in an industry that rarely seems to have even one of the above.

I haven't been in business for very long, but I don't think I have had any clients jumping boats yet. With everyone out there claiming they have what you have, how do these qualities differentiate yourself from the eyes of new prospects?

Edit: I may add that I have been scratching my head brainstorming which aspects of the corporate video business I can focus on to differentiate myself from others. One idea I have is specializing in a very wide aspect ratio, around 3:1 to 4:1, for website display, fitting all the way across a website so it fits nicely, without needing to produce too large a file.

What directions do you folks go on?

 

[dougspice]

I think you probably misunderstood me. By industry I didn't mean "video production," I am referring to the markets in which we are selling products. In this case, government and military.

But to answer your question: have a great reel, streamline your production pipeline so you can deliver on slimmer budgets, and always be available and charming. In our case we have a reputation for being friendly, cute, and quirky, which has worked out well for us. But even the best warm fuzzies aren't going to keep you well stocked in clients if you can't deliver some combination of other benefits to them.

 

[chromeboy007]

Ah ok thanks Doug.

 

[robstar1]

Robert, thanks for the info!......I have a Fortune 500 company I shoot/edit/produce projects for, but who also sometimes has employees shoot their meetings and events, then I have to make their cr@p look and sound good in post.

Thanks for the kind words!

Why not make lemonade out of lemons on this?

Suggest that you teach a part or full-day training class for their staff on how to use those little cameras and how to get the best results out of them. Charge for it of course or maybe not and don't talk down to them. Teach them the "when it's okay to use the little cameras and when not".

By teaching them you do several things: First you establish yourself as an expert in the area, second you make yourself available for future questions and third you spend an entire day or half day making new relationships. Give them no-brainer tips and tricks and maybe even a few ideas on how to use consumer technology.

Frankly, I'd even consider doing this training for free but I'd go in with a written curriculum, very organized and very upbeat on how they can succeed and help the company being their own little in-house production.

You're likely never going to get or want that lower level of production anyway, so turn it into something positive. By educating them, you set a standard for when it's time to call a professional.

This could be a very positive move for you! This is marketing and sales that costs you essentially NOTHING but your time and builds your brand / recognition.

That's what I'd do!

Robert

 

[groveChuck]

Excellent idea, Robert! Of course, I'd rather edit and shoot for them, but if they're going to (in some cases) shoot their own stuff, might as well try to improve it some, and yes, make more contacts. It could be difficult syncing their schedules to get many to come a seminar, and who knows which employees might be shooting their events in the future, but if they're interested in learning , I'm game.

Great outside the box thinking, Robert, thanks!

 

[JonathanLB]

You are not talking about TurnHere, are you?

HAHA, umm... no comment.

It took us quite a while to establish ourselves in the assisted living industry actually, it really did. I mean think about it this way, we did our first work in summer 2008, and I hired my sales lady in summer 2009, and here we are past summer 2010 and we've just now broken through to some of the big boys and had a lot more connections with companies small, medium, and large. It takes a LONG time, and it's so true you have to knock on all of the doors. You're not going to get referred too easily... could it, does it happen? Yeah... but also, if you do great work for one company, they want to keep you a secret! They don't want you to go do the same videos for another, competing company! Haha. The best way to get referred is through people who move around or are friends because of that. In other words, you have a marketing person at one company who used to work for another company, and thus has lots of friends and connections with the previous company, etc. People tend to move around within the industry, which can benefit you over a longer period of time for sure.

You should never be too discouraged if progress isn't fast, so long as you keep trying and don't give up. It has taken us seriously a half-year, even a year, to get solid contact with some of these companies, and the key has been persistence. You can't be annoying, but let's say you haven't contacted them in two months, and now you did some other great videos you're proud of for a competing company, send them a link! Show them what you did, and not only does it show off the quality your company offers, but it also lets them know, hey, guys, the competition is leaving you in the dust here, get with the program. They start thinking about it, jeez so wait these guys did videos for BPM, ok whatever, but then it was Kisco, and now Integral, and pretty soon they start thinking they don't want to be the LAST company in the industry to have videos up! That's good, it's like lighting a fire under them, haha.

It is a problem trying to convince companies that you need to pay for quality, though. There is this amazing disconnect between Hollywood and corporate video production. They don't seem to flinch at big budget movies, these same people are talking about how such and such low budget $8 million movie was SO great for being such a cheap production. $8 MILLION! That is NOT cheap, haha, I made a movie for way, way, way less than that and it looks and sounds amazing, $8 million is a dang nice budget. But the public throws that figure around like it's pocket change, because they know Transformers is $200 million, haha. But then when it comes to making a really nice corporate video, suddenly $1,600 is a lot of money and they wanted to find someone for $400, hahaha. Yeah... ok.

 

[chromeboy007]

The best way to get referred is through people who move around or are friends because of that. In other words, you have a marketing person at one company who used to work for another company, and thus has lots of friends and connections with the previous company, etc. People tend to move around within the industry, which can benefit you over a longer period of time for sure.

Yes that is so true!! A big chunk of my business is coming, essentially, from one friend who used to work for one marketing company but left and moved around etc...

Thanks for your encouragements and sharing your experience... I'll keep knocking on doors!

 

[dougspice]

One of the best business skills you can learn is how to sniff out potential clients who don't actually value your services. It can take time to learn how to do this, and when you're starting out you may have to work for these people, either to pay the rent or to learn how to spot them. But in the long run, if you care about doing quality work, it does you no good to work for the TurnHeres of the world. If the client ever feels even for a moment that "they could do it better themselves" or "they could get their cousin to do this," then they're either delusional or you're not doing your job correctly. Educating clients and managing expectations is just as much a part of the job as actually doing the work, but some clients just can't be educated. You should run away as fast as you can.

Budgets compound the higher up the chain you go. Once you start working within the system, costs go up across the board. Can this be avoided? Sometimes yes, often no. A lot of those costs sound outlandish, but are actually quite sensible. I can say this as someone who once proclaimed the wastefulness of the "Hollywood" mentality, and now, some years later, humbly admit that doing good work and getting paid to do it just costs a lot of money.

Also, Rob is a very smart man and continually drops excellent ideas in here.

 

[JonathanLB]

Doug you are definitely right about that. It's one of those things where, like you said, once you are in that system, the costs simply go up. The pay grade goes up and it doesn't mean that the production is that much higher. I mean only to say that you shouldn't expect a $1 million indie film to be 5 times higher production value than a $200,000 indie film because that's simply not realistic. On the $1 million film, they may shoot it with union crew, and that means you can't get away with $100-150 per day, you have to pay them more. SAG won't let you pay your actors $100/day either. If it's a DGA film, you also just entered a larger budget category than the $200K film, so you may have 2 or even 3 times the production value, but not 5. It's a series of diminishing returns.

I'm not here to knock that either, though. You do get quality more often when you use a union crew than when you don't. Are there great crew members who are non-union? Absolutely. Are there idiots who are in the unions? Well, sure. But overall you can expect a higher level of professionalism from a union crew than with a non-union crew. Plus, there's the simple fact that the studios have to do their films union anyway, so what I could probably make for $1 million non-union they can't make for less than $5 million the way they do it. But I have to spend more time finding the quality people and hoping that the professionalism I can get is equal to their union crews, which isn't easy. Sometimes at a higher budget, you're not getting more, you're just paying the same people more money, haha.

Educating clients is definitely part of the process, a big part, we always find ourselves in that position. Showing them our previous work, explaining the different prices of our packages and what they include, and why they cost more money or why they'd want to pay more for one package than the other. We don't push our clients or potential clients to spend more money, though, we show them what the advantages are, look at what their needs are, and figure out with them what makes sense. For most of our clients right now, it doesn't make sense to spend $5,000 on a community tour video and get all of the bells and whistles when they can have something still very good and professional for a few thousand dollars. So it just depends what they're looking for, but it's very tough to deal with the clients who think a video should cost $400.

TurnHere is one solution for clients with very little money who just want some type of video, but the quality is clearly lacking. If you look at what they offer and listen to what people say about most of their videos, I mean it speaks for itself. Not to badmouth them but it's just not quality work. They do the best they can I guess with the money the client is willing to pay.

 

[chromeboy007]

BNI and others

BNI and others

Has anyone joined a BNI or BNI-like networking group? I have been to a few of these meetings and I have to say I don't LIKE their formats and structures. I guess they work, I guess. Are any of you a member?