How To Get Started and Stay In The Business

A lot of the industry events we attend have mainly freelancers there and not companies who shoot corporates etc like us... most of these people work together regularly since our local area here in the North-east of England is probably quite small compared to that of you guys in the U.S.

Most of them are more 'creatives' than 'Business' people, of course they would rather they got a certain job than you but i think a lot of people realize that if you help someone else out with maybe giving them a freelance role, the favor will be returned in the future...

I think 'Professional courtesy' is a term that a lot of people should take more seriously because it will benefit everyone at some point.

Tom.
 
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I'm going to surprise all of you then, when I say that I've met a "competitor" in my area and we've teamed up together several times already to handle larger jobs that neither of us could alone handle.
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basspig, you're not surprising anyone who's successful in this business with a statement like that. We all do that. Much of my business came from exactly that.
 
Then change "all" to "some" in the line "I'm going to surprise..." and that's probably more accurate. :thumbsup:
 
What do you guys think of real estate video tours? It seems like a one up on virtual tours but I have been having a tough time getting through to local agents in my city. They either can't understand it, understand it but don't see the value, understand it and see the value but seller objects due to privacy, and in general are concerned about viewer download time.

There is this guy out of Phoenix Arizona who does a fantastic job. His stuff are on YouTube.

Edit: here is the Phoenix guy's channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NEXTEDGEVIDEO
 
Ironically, we have some of the most expensive real estate here ($6M & up) homes, right in my local area, but the real estate agents do their own tour videos with a cell phone camera or a cheap video camera. I've looked at a bunch of awful videos, approached those agencies offering my services, but none of them gave me so much as a 'thanks, but no thanks' response.
In other states, I hear people are doing these for $100 per video or even less. It's not a profit center unless you can tour 8-10 homes a day.
 
At least your agents know what it means to use videos. Some of the agents in my area can't even understand what it is.

me: how do you feel about using video to showcase your property?
agent: what do you mean by video?
me: well like a video tour.
agent: you mean like a virtual tour?
me: kind of, except with video
agent:.... you take pictures?
me: (gives up)

Mind you not all of them are like that. regardless, my research tells me that it is ahead of the curve for RE agents at this point, unless you go after the estates/land/mansions.
 
Barry_Green said:
basspig, you're not surprising anyone who's successful in this business with a statement like that. We all do that. Much of my business came from exactly that.
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Indeed, I have a good business partner who does the same thing that I do.

He hires me for some jobs, and I hire him for others.

It works rather well.
 
robstar1 said:
Get a really nice, professionally designed business card and have it printed at a real printer, not Kinko's. When you hand it off, the look, the feel of the paper and the design says more about you than you can ever say. Rest assured that Fortune 500 companies, studios and distributors don't do much business with people who have home printed cards, scruffy shoes and a non-professional approach. They'll never see you working off the corner of your kitchen table but they will see you and your card. We're talking $150 here max, not including the wardrobe.
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Though I don't think this is over the top for what Robert was trying to get across, I wanted to share it anyway. :grin:

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I AGREE


I've used Vistaprint before, but I took advantage of their super-cheap offer for business cards. Has anyone used them in a more "higher class" capacity?
 
How do you guys get through gatekeepers like receptionists and secretaries in your calls?

Usually I know the names of the people I'm trying to talk to, if not at least the position. But the receptionist or whoever always ask "May I ask who is calling?" or "What is this in regards to?". I tell them. Then I get a "Oh, let me put you through to so and so's voice mail.", which is exactly what I don't want to get.

So what do you guys do?
 
Hi Chromeboy007, you'll find the answers to your question regarding receptionists / "gatekeepers" back in the beginning of the thread. The thread starts with the basics and that is where you should start; at the beginning with the basics and read foward so we're all on the same page(s). Yes, I know there's a lot of reading but that is where you'll find most of the answers.

Robert Starling, SOC
 
Let's put networking and competitors into some perspective!

Through networking and engaging your work / business in a professional way, competitors can be converted to colleagues.

Colleagues build and maintain a mutual respect of each other, open lines of communication and support each other in such a way that it strengthens the market and both of your positions. You still compete, but as colleagues you've hopefully built enough trust and camaraderie that you've discussed mutual challenges within your market / client / peer group.

When it comes time that Prospect X says to you that one of your colleagues is doing something that doesn't add up, you call your colleague and discuss it. Don't be surprised if the prospect or client LIED to pit you against each other. It happens all the time!

I trust my colleagues and consequently refer work to them when I'm too busy or already booked, they do the same and we have the trust in place to feel comfortable that they're not going to try to steal your client. But, if the client ends up liking them better, they really were not your client after all right?

When someone calls me to fill in for another operator, my first call is the other operator to discuss their rate, terms, politics and how the client pays.

Colleagues can be your best source of new business and support and that requires the utmost care and respect for that relationship. You always err on the side of the relationship you've built and never let the client divide you. It is the highest form of compliment when another competitor / colleague refers and entrusts their client to you.

Build the communication with your competitors and strengthen your market for you and them. Reach out to new people / upstarts, bring them into the fold, teach them the right way before they discover or fumble over the wrong way.
 
chromeboy007 said:
What do you guys think of real estate video tours? It seems like a one up on virtual tours but I have been having a tough time getting through to local agents in my city. They either can't understand it, understand it but don't see the value, understand it and see the value but seller objects due to privacy, and in general are concerned about viewer download time.

There is this guy out of Phoenix Arizona who does a fantastic job. His stuff are on YouTube.

Edit: here is the Phoenix guy's channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NEXTEDGEVIDEO
Click to expand...

We do a lot of virtual tours, but that's what we call them, virtual tour does not imply hokey 360 photo tour from back in the day (hello CirclePix! lol), it just means a virtual tour of the property without being there. Specifically, video virtual tours, but yes, that's where we started our business is virtual tours for assisted living communities and that's where I've continued as well.

Now we're doing one for a bed and breakfast, also a bunch more for another assisted living company, essentially "community tours" because it's more about showcasing the community than just the property, which is secondary.

There is no money in the real estate market whatsoever though, basspig is right, it's like $100 a video or something, it's all complete amateur hour. We have packages from $1,600 to $5,000 for virtual tours, depending on what they want. So we can't operate on $100 videos lol.
 
Jonathan, you indirectly bring up a good point; specialization and "bread-n-butter" work.

Have you found that you use the virtual tour work as b&b to "pay the rent" so to speak that allows you to go out and pursue other areas of the business or is it the focus of your business?

We all have b&b work to keep food on the table I think. For me it's whatever hits the ground and makes the phone ring in Las Vegas using Steadicam which I then use the proceeds from pay the bills to further my interest(s) in larger scale film and television work.

Robert Starling, SOC
 
robstar1 said:
We all have b&b work to keep food on the table I think. For me it's whatever hits the ground and makes the phone ring in Las Vegas using Steadicam which I then use the proceeds from pay the bills to further my interest(s) in larger scale film and television work.
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Same here. If you want to pay me to shoot something, then I'll shoot it, I don't care what it is. Then I use that money to afford the equipment or budgets I need to do what I want in those areas.
 
This is true, well that was my idea behind corporate work in general, trying to pay the bills so that I could pursue feature film work, which is what I really want to do. I don't have a huge interest in corporate work but I take pride in any work that I do and always demand excellence, so if I'm doing corporate work I'll give it my best. But yeah, I admit I would prefer to just focus on being a writer-director, who wouldn't, but that's a pretty coveted, tough job, lol.

I have to admit that now I'm a bit more encouraged because I'm directing my first feature this summer, with a company co-producing that has done a lot of indie films before, often with much larger budgets, and they seem confident we can really do well with this film. I have to admit to being a bit frustrated with my experience on this forum simply because I've learned a lot sometimes, and gotten good information from people on this or that issue, or at least been curious enough to go read more about something or another myself and get ahold of every book I could. That's all very positive. But it has been one of the most downright confusing, strange things to me that on this forum, everyone always discourages you from making a feature film, and I haven't figured out if that's because most people here do corporate / commercial / industrial work and believe that's where the money is, or if they are actually doing indie features and don't want more competition, or if they just are bitter about past failures. I really am not sure. But this place tended to make me very cautious because I have a natural tendency to assume what other people say has good validity, so when I hear people say, "Nah man, making an indie film is like buying a lottery ticket, there's a 1 in 1,000 chance you'll even make your money back," then I started thinking, jeez, that sounds brutal, I don't think I want to take that risk right now! I kept hearing that over and over. Then I would talk to people in my circle of professionals in Los Angeles, and they'd just laugh at that, most of them think making your money back on a $100,000 to $300,000 indie film is a slam-dunk, "almost guaranteed, unless it's awful," that's what I've heard many times now. People who run companies and have done this for a living for many years, or worked as UPMs on countless indie productions here. So I have not been able to figure out that clear disconnect where 99% of people on the forum say it's impossible, don't even bother, forget about it, and almost everyone in real life says that's nonsense, it's easy to make your money back when you aren't spending much. I'm about to find out for myself as I dive into this more, but I'm a lot less worried and glad I took the dive rather than listening to negativity because I know we'll have some success with this film. You don't get anywhere by sitting home!

If I had to make some sort of an educated guess for the divergence of opinion, I think it's because most people making indie films on a forum aren't that successful at it or they probably wouldn't have time to be posting on a forum in the first place. I think on top of that, you talk to people on a forum and they're from everywhere, they are shooting features on a DVX100 with their buddy serving as 1st A.D., he's never done it before, and he has no clue what's going on. Or it's some guy trying to make a feature with his friends and serving as 5 positions himself, with no experience writing a proper screenplay and nobody looking at it first to tell him whether it's good or not. Then on top of that, throw in that these people finish their features, which is some sort of an accomplishment at least, and then have ZERO distribution contacts whatsoever, they have to send out screeners to companies or hope that a major festival will select them, which is understandably very unlikely. Then you have a lot of disgruntled filmmakers who think it's impossible. Contrast that with the people I know, who live in Hollywood, make indie films with fully professional crews using cameras like the RED or even 35mm shoots, attach B-list stars to their productions, have producers attached who read the script and liked it enough to get involved, have directors who have at least done a variety of other film work, and when the films are finished someone in the circle, usually the producer, has easy access to a network of distribution contacts they've made from years in the business. That's why it's a slam-dunk for those films to return a profit, because they are made the right way from start to finish, with the right connections.
 
All incredible advice.

I will add to what Rob was giving us advice on, it is definitely a benefit to not only make friends out of your competitors but find a specialty that makes YOU attractive to THEIR projects.

Imagine having your own clients and also filling your other hours JUST doing motion graphics or JUST shooting Macro or JUST doing run-n-guns or JUST setting up a time-lapse camera for a colleague who has built the cost of that one thing into THEIR invoice!

For example, we at LizardLand have one of the best Tabletop shooters in the industry - Paul Hudson. We also have our own HD Probe Lens system for the Panasonic HPX500. I know that if any of our contacts needed product photography, they could show our product photography reel at juicebrand.com to their client and offer our tabletop to enrich their client's video. Why be competitors when you can be teammates?

Get to be really good at something and market yourself to your colleagues and offer to allow your work to build up their product.
 
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