How To Get Started and Stay In The Business

robstar1 said:
Not sure I'm following you on this? Are you saying the people you run across or meet are situations where you are there working for their vendor as in another production company? Or are you saying the most everyone already has a vendor?
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Oh no, not that. I was saying that most of the people that I contact, and find them to be a potential client, are already working a production company or agency of some sort. Now I do not know these other companies at all, but the potential client is already "in bed" with someone. So that seems to make it a bit trickier, or more difficult.

It seems to be most often that the potential client is working with another company already, so they're not really looking. Or they do not use anyone (outside of the local station production), and most of the time do not see the value in a higher quality production/product. On the latter, it essentially crosses them off the list as they would more than likely end up "grinders" even if you could get them to work with you.
 
The more they use other people or another company the more qualified they are for you. Be a Pit Bull and stay with them even if it means years to break the ice or they get new management or the relationship sours. You want to be fresh on their minds when they say " we ought to try someone new and freshen up the look a bit".

Peace!

Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
Los Angeles and Las Vegas
 
jobs vs business

jobs vs business

Hey, thanks for the amazing post!

I do have one question though...

How do I get a job working for someone who already owns a digital video or film production company? I don't really have the time to start my own business at the moment, but I don't mind working for someone else, or under someone else who knows what they're doing.

How do I get on someone's team?
 
I can't speak for every production company, but I'll speak for mine:

The number one way to get to work for us is to have a great reel. It doesn't have to have big names on it, and as a matter of fact, I don't care if everything on the reel is spec and/or private pet projects. If your work is great, I'll give you a shot.

Of course, you also have to meet me, make a good impression, and stay on my radar so that when I NEED someone with your talents, I think of you. But #1 - do good work and I'll hire you.
 
I suppose I should also add...

I suppose I should also add...

In addition to my last post, I don't own any equipment with which to produce a reel.

I just quit my job working at a call center because I couldn't stand it anymore, and I needed to start doing work that I love, which is working in video and film production.

I have no money, and what little experience I have in video I got during high school and my 2 year AA degree at Collins College.

I know all the principles of framing, lighting, audio, editing, pacing, writing, etc. I just don't have any means to do anything with what I know and get experience or get a reel made.

I would be extremely grateful for any advice!
 
In that case, you should seek out a filmmaking group in your area (something like http://sdfilmmakers.org/ here in San Diego). Meet people, network, and volunteer your time in order to build your reel. In the meantime, you'll unfortunately have to get a "day job" to support yourself while you build your reel and resumé.

There are no shortcuts. In order to get work in this business, you have to have done work!
 
GroovyBrent said:
In that case, you should seek out a filmmaking group in your area (something like http://sdfilmmakers.org/ here in San Diego). Meet people, network, and volunteer your time in order to build your reel. In the meantime, you'll unfortunately have to get a "day job" to support yourself while you build your reel and resumé.

There are no shortcuts. In order to get work in this business, you have to have done work!
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Absolutely. He's 100% right, that's just how it works. There's no way around that. Even for me, I'm spending most of my time building my reel for now and not seeking paying clients, because I want to have a good foundation and set of work to show for when I am approaching more clients. Your reel is everything in this business because it is the key that can open up the doors to new clients, once you make those connections. Meeting potential clients is like finding locked doors. The reel is like your key. It may not fit into every door, but if it's really good, it will open a lot of them. And if it's the best, it's like a skeleton key ;)
 
A good reel

A good reel

Wow, thanks for the great information!!

How can I know that I've got a good reel? I imagine that I should try and see as many of my competitor's reels as possible, yeah?
 
Brent has touched on some very very good points in his posts; most if not all of them apply whether you are freelancing, looking for a staff position or starting your own production company:

<<Of course, you also have to meet me, make a good impression, and stay on my radar so that when I NEED someone with your talents, I think of you.>>

He goes on further to say:

<<There are no shortcuts>>

Absolutely dead-on with all of the above Brent!

Making a good impression means you've got to have some personality but not too much over the top, you've got to look, act and present yourself professionally and you need to not overstate your abilities.

Staying on the radar is largely what this entire thread has been about; identify your potential clients, contact them, make a great impression when you meet and keep in touch with them until they have an opening or a need for your services. I would guess that hundreds if not nearly a thousand people have contacted me for production work and jobs over the years. 99.9% call once, tell me how big their dream and drive are, how dedicated they are and they never follow up or keep in touch. AND, I tell them to keep in touch just to touch base every 4-5 weeks.

Another pet peeve is that among the countless talented people I work with on-set every day, so few people have a business card. How can you expect people to remember you and what you do if you don't have a card? They may remember you but your name will fade and even if they love you, how will they contact you or refer you? People call me all the time looking for referrals for crew so I give them the names I know and trust but also I'll grab the stack of cards on my desk and say "check this person out, I worked with them a few weeks ago and he/she was a go-getter". This is the way business works...all business. Get a card and get rid of the "yo dude, I'm a stoner / slacker" sounding voice message. Remember the making a good impression part?

Doryen, great to meet you and glad to see you here asking all the right questions. Based on what you've written about yourself, I'd say if you don't have a reel (which is okay for now), you don't have a camera and you don't know what a good reel looks like, your best best is to start out as a PA or video camera assistant with an established shooter. Unless I'm reading it wrong you'll need to work your way up a fews notches on the production food chain before you'll be hired as a shooter. If I'm wrong, no offense and please accept my apology.

As an example, I met a camera assistant about 18 months ago, he kept in touch, he was hungry for the biz, was finishing up film school, working TWO jobs; one as a stage hand on a Vegas show, the other humping heavy gear in a grip and electric rental house. Yet, he still found time to volunteer to help me keep my rental gear / cameras organized and time to do paid work as a Steadicam assistant for me. That led to a paid position working for me and access to my gear for shooting his own work. I even donated a day of Steadicam to one of his projects.

Honestly, I don't know how he found the time or energy but he shot enough to where I could feel okay to pass a few small jobs along to him and in the last year he built his business to the point to where he bought one of my HD camera packages from me and I've gotten him onto some fairly large features and television series as a camera assistant. He busted his butt with all his heart and soul; always with a smile and a hustle in his step. At 24 he's well on his way to building a great career and business. If you want to make it in the production business, people with this kind of drive are your competitors; sharp, hard-working and willing to go way above and beyond.

Enough for me for now... early call time tomorrow!

Peace!

Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
 
I love that! It is so encouraging and lends motivation to those of us out here still striving to be where they want be and know they are capable of being with hard work and a good attitude. This thread has become a staple for me, especially when things are looking down. Thanks again to everyone contributing!
 
what if...

what if...

What if I wanted to scratch the whole video crew job thing and start out as an indie? Should I go to film school?
 
Hi Doryen, this thread is more related to the business end of getting into and staying in the business. While your question about film school is somewhat related to getting into the business, there are other threads and forums where that topic is discussed in-detail and then some.

Let's keep this thread on track with practical business related questions and comments rather than a personal "what if" career path.

Thanks!

Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
Los Angeles and Las Vegas
 
I received an interesting comment from a respected mentor in the field recently (paraphrasing):

"If you want to freelance, stop building your business. If not, the companies that would hire you will start to see you as their competition."

It really got me thinking. I guess I am kind of stuck in between building my business and freelancing, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. My goal is a thriving business but freelancing has certain financial benefits as well.

Any comments?


Jason
 
grinner said:
no art has ever required schooling.
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I disagree. Many (if not most) great artists learn, then master, a craft. Art transcends craft, but the foundation is necessary for that to happen. Simply expressing oneself alone is not art.
 
AwakenedFilms said:
I guess I am kind of stuck in between building my business and freelancing, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. My goal is a thriving business but freelancing has certain financial benefits as well.
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Either way you are building a business. Freelancing successfully requires building a freelance business; there's no difference in relationship building skills, technique and work required other than if you're building a Production Company, you're competing with other production companies for the same clients assuming you all have the same target market.

As a Freelancer, you're competing with other freelancers for the jobs the Producers put together. As a freelancer, you'll have some repeat clients and some one time clients; as a Producer you'll have some repeat clients and some one time clients.

No matter what you always have to take care of the clients you have and try to develop new relationships that turn into clients.

Producer or Freelancer your job is to build your business; the work/role you do as one or the other is different but the job remains the same.

Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
 
AwakenedFilms said:
I received an interesting comment from a respected mentor in the field recently (paraphrasing):

"If you want to freelance, stop building your business. If not, the companies that would hire you will start to see you as their competition."

It really got me thinking. I guess I am kind of stuck in between building my business and freelancing, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. My goal is a thriving business but freelancing has certain financial benefits as well.

Any comments?


Jason
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Companies hesitate to hire companies whiel they love to outsource to individuals. That's the truth.
If you are operating under an LLC, it's best not to advertise that... if wanting to freelance. You'll market yourself simply as an artist/specialist as a freelancer.

If marketing to general public, that's who likes to see an establishment.

I'll restate my words on schooling and art.... art is what comes from those who have not been told what and what not to do or the ones who have learned how to properly break those rules.
Templates simply don't sell as art. Thats what assembly lines are for.
 
I'm still not sure...

I'm still not sure...

I'm still not sure whereabouts I should actually go to even network with people in the industry, since I'm not actively involved in it. I wouldn't mind working freelance, but I imagine I'd have to already have all the tenure and experience that comes with working with other professionals and experts in the field and doing more than just getting my hands dirty.

What would any of you recommend for me to do? I haven't really found any job postings for this field. I've looked all over the net and can't find any posting places that are remotely helpful. I've checked productionhub, azproduction, mandy, etc to no avail.
 
Thanks for the feedback Rob and Grinner,
I agree, building both a freelancing business and production company share a few key ingredients - mainly keeping current clients happy and prospecting for new clients. It is really important to keep the main thing the main thing, and my business plan incorporates both roles.

Ginner, in response to your thoughts on advertising the 'LLC part' - That is exactly my point. I was prospecting with another production company about freelancing on a regular basis for them and the LLC/insurance question came up. It seemed to be a sticking point, the president was nervous that I might pass out business cards when shooting under their flag. I surmised from our conversation that this has actually happened to him but I would never insult his offer by circumventing his company's flag. The reality is that our businesses have the potential to be quite symbiotic. I suppose I could easily be classified as his competitor, but that is not my goal. Communicating this can be a bit convoluted.

My favorite role in my business is cinematography. If my production company sends me out to shoot, I am happy. If I am on a freelance gig as a shooter, I am happy.


Jason
 
Not to steer this topic off of it's current route, but I am curious how you all feel the economic environment? How is it effecting your business and what can one do to insure their survival? Obviously there are no guarantees, especially at this time, but there must be some steps one can take to give yourself, or your business, the best possible chances. From where I stand, I am even looking for ways to expand and grow, not the other way around. Thanks in advance for the input!
 
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