How To Get Started and Stay In The Business
- Thread starter robstar1
- Start date
gonzoish79
Well-known member
nice piece, thank you
GroovyBrent
Member
I'm coming to this party late, but I'll take a stab at answering that question:
That's outstanding that you can think of 90 companies off the top of your head. Think about how many more prospects are out there that you've never even heard of! Research other companies that are in the market segments that you are starting to target. As you gain clients (and do good work for them) ask them for referrals. Those referrals may point you in a direction you've never even thought of!
As for getting through to the decision makers, using this method, you don't really need to get to the decision makers. I've talked to PLENTY of sales and marketing guys, listening to what they do and what their business needs are. Eventually when you've build a rapport, they get excited about your business and THEY take your business to their boss. PRESTO! Introduction to the decision maker!
It doesn't always work that way for us, but when it does, they become great clients.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Hiiii lol, just wondering if the uber master robstar can give us a few more tips
I encountered some mix responses to the 'technique'
which i think reflects some interesting differences between the UK (Scotland in my case) and the USA perhaps?
Now i've only done two days so I know i do have to do more - the most immediate benefit is being able to qualify potential customers as it were, and see whether they may require you or not.
However I was calling companies - should i say businesses that sell kitchens/bathrooms, and others related to property development. I found though that these businesses (certainly the smaller ones) were really beligerrent hehe!
So let me give you an example of my call!!! (Imagine me speaking slowly but with a resonance of happy but gentle warmth)
"Hi there I was wondering if you could help me?"
"Yeah?" (or) Aha?
"Yeah... I was wondering who might deal with sales/advertising at xxx company?"
"Why? Look what is this in connection with?"
"Oh I was just wanting to touch base with your colleage, say hello etc, erm is now a good time or?"
"Hrmph, I can see..."
"Sure that would be great, oh so who is your marketing rep?"
"Why do you want to know? *pause* you can ask yourself!"
"Great! Thanks for your help!"
Marketing rep shuffles on.
"Hello?"
"Hi pleasure to speak to you, my names Lawrie, (you can guess from my forum name right) so what is it you do over there at xxx company?"
"(cynical sounding) Aha.... right okay what is this about? What you selling?"
"Oh me? I was just wanting to find out a little more about what you guys are doing at xxx company, to say hello and let you guys know that we're out there, we're a blah blah company, same area etc."
"Ah right okay, well we sometimes do this and that, look you got an email or business card you can post yep?"
"Oh yes absolutely, I will send one riiiiiight away etc"
Now most of the companies ive called so far, have been smaller businesses but they don't tend to be so conversational? It may have been the time i was calling in between 3 - 4:30pm? I think its probably because i was calling smaller businesses (and that larger companies with departments and er proper secretaries as i reckon those picking the phone was probably a sales assistant) would be a little less freaked out by me calling.
The marketing reps i think in many cases were the managing director you could say (of these small businesses) quite guarded etc.
So anyway Dogstar i know im screwing up a little bit where am i going wrong hehe because i feel like i am! whaa!
I encountered some mix responses to the 'technique'
which i think reflects some interesting differences between the UK (Scotland in my case) and the USA perhaps? Now i've only done two days so I know i do have to do more - the most immediate benefit is being able to qualify potential customers as it were, and see whether they may require you or not.
However I was calling companies - should i say businesses that sell kitchens/bathrooms, and others related to property development. I found though that these businesses (certainly the smaller ones) were really beligerrent hehe!
So let me give you an example of my call!!! (Imagine me speaking slowly but with a resonance of happy but gentle warmth)
"Hi there I was wondering if you could help me?"
"Yeah?" (or) Aha?
"Yeah... I was wondering who might deal with sales/advertising at xxx company?"
"Why? Look what is this in connection with?"
"Oh I was just wanting to touch base with your colleage, say hello etc, erm is now a good time or?"
"Hrmph, I can see..."
"Sure that would be great, oh so who is your marketing rep?"
"Why do you want to know? *pause* you can ask yourself!"
"Great! Thanks for your help!"
Marketing rep shuffles on.
"Hello?"
"Hi pleasure to speak to you, my names Lawrie, (you can guess from my forum name right) so what is it you do over there at xxx company?"
"(cynical sounding) Aha.... right okay what is this about? What you selling?"
"Oh me? I was just wanting to find out a little more about what you guys are doing at xxx company, to say hello and let you guys know that we're out there, we're a blah blah company, same area etc."
"Ah right okay, well we sometimes do this and that, look you got an email or business card you can post yep?"
"Oh yes absolutely, I will send one riiiiiight away etc"
Now most of the companies ive called so far, have been smaller businesses but they don't tend to be so conversational? It may have been the time i was calling in between 3 - 4:30pm? I think its probably because i was calling smaller businesses (and that larger companies with departments and er proper secretaries as i reckon those picking the phone was probably a sales assistant) would be a little less freaked out by me calling.
The marketing reps i think in many cases were the managing director you could say (of these small businesses) quite guarded etc.
So anyway Dogstar i know im screwing up a little bit where am i going wrong hehe because i feel like i am! whaa!
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Spartacus
Veteran
Hm,
one thing could really be some cultural differences, I also find it hard to get to the right persons in bigger companys without some namedropping, like "hello there, Mr.Smith from company X told me, that you were doing this and that..."
Actually, here in Germany, you really have to say what you want, there´s no "hold on, I´ll put you through to the marketing department, they´ll answer whatever questons you might have...".
If this nevertheless happens, then maybe only because the person taking the initial calls to the company only decides, which secretary to connect to and the secretary will block you off...
I think one problem here is "secretary training", if someone calls and doesn´t clearly say what he wants, cut him off.
I´d rather go the opposite way, don´t ask for help and goodwill of the secretary, but rather give her ALL the information you would give the PR/Sales guy in a calm, serious and polite way - either she´ll think "(that´s beyond my understanding) I´ll put you through to Mr.XXX!" or she´ll feel important enough, cause you gave her that much detailed info, that she´ll decide your legit to be put through to Mr. or Mrs. Right.
Or she still blocks you off:evil:
But actually I didn´t get why you called places selling kitchens and bathrooms?
Are these manufacturers of these things or resellers?
I believe it´ll always be hard to sell resellers anything but a local TV add, first the brands they sell will do advertising and second most typicall resellers are small family owned companys (except chain stores of course), who rather build on personal recommondations and "special offer" newspaper adds...
Also cashing out 15K and more for a well produced image film will probably be out of reach for smaller compayns.
I would rather concentrate on companys dealing nationaly or internationaly, why shoud I watch a film, when I jut can walk by the company?
But when someone in London is interessted in the products of a scottish company, he´ll be happy to watch a presentation before flying over to Dunedin...
Well, just my2c:beer:
one thing could really be some cultural differences, I also find it hard to get to the right persons in bigger companys without some namedropping, like "hello there, Mr.Smith from company X told me, that you were doing this and that..."
Actually, here in Germany, you really have to say what you want, there´s no "hold on, I´ll put you through to the marketing department, they´ll answer whatever questons you might have...".
If this nevertheless happens, then maybe only because the person taking the initial calls to the company only decides, which secretary to connect to and the secretary will block you off...
I think one problem here is "secretary training", if someone calls and doesn´t clearly say what he wants, cut him off.
I´d rather go the opposite way, don´t ask for help and goodwill of the secretary, but rather give her ALL the information you would give the PR/Sales guy in a calm, serious and polite way - either she´ll think "(that´s beyond my understanding) I´ll put you through to Mr.XXX!" or she´ll feel important enough, cause you gave her that much detailed info, that she´ll decide your legit to be put through to Mr. or Mrs. Right.
Or she still blocks you off:evil:
But actually I didn´t get why you called places selling kitchens and bathrooms?
Are these manufacturers of these things or resellers?
I believe it´ll always be hard to sell resellers anything but a local TV add, first the brands they sell will do advertising and second most typicall resellers are small family owned companys (except chain stores of course), who rather build on personal recommondations and "special offer" newspaper adds...
Also cashing out 15K and more for a well produced image film will probably be out of reach for smaller compayns.
I would rather concentrate on companys dealing nationaly or internationaly, why shoud I watch a film, when I jut can walk by the company?
But when someone in London is interessted in the products of a scottish company, he´ll be happy to watch a presentation before flying over to Dunedin...
Well, just my2c:beer:
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Hiiii lol, just wondering if the uber master robstar can give us a few more tips
I encountered some mix responses to the 'technique'
Now i've only done two days so I know i do have to do more - the most immediate benefit is being able to qualify potential customers as it were, and see whether they may require you or not.
Congratulations Lawrie on at least trying to do something which puts you ahead the rest of the people who read the thread and go back to doing nothing that builds their business. While they collect gear, you can collect their potential clients.
Like anything, marketing and sales takes consistency, practice and time to get good at it. Going back to the all important 'listening" skill, you'll eventually make enough calls to read between the lines for the subtle signs of when someone is busy, stressed, preoccupied or just a jerk. As you develop that skill to read the their voices, you be better able to either let it go or drop that magical bit of insight "Lawrie, it sounds like you're super busy right now, how about if I call you next week? Is one time better than another?". You've just let them off the hook and they'll owe you a moment next week.
Go back to my original posting; you might make thousands of contacts to get just a few LIFELONG clients that surpass client status to become FANS and FRIENDS. Once you get a handful of those, you're set but you still have to keep up the marketing efforts and follow up.
Someone commented that you still need the gear to get good. To a certain extent you do need some form of imaging system but I guarantee you don't need an HVX, DVX, RED or anything at that level to practice composition, camera movement, lighting, blocking, Directing. When it comes to building a reel, you can always test the shots on your $300 practice camera, then beg, borrow, trade or rent the camera of your choice. Frankly, very few people who call me even ask for a reel.
I'll try to check the thread more often to answer questions. Thanks for all the positive comments and taking time to ask.
Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner / Operator
Steadicam | Aerial | Jib | Underwater
Las Vegas, NV
Michael Dalton
Member
To survive in TV production, you have to really want it, and learn from you mistakes. I pitched several idea and keep learning from each. I had good reaction from one, went out and shot a pilot on my own dime, then the show got picked up. I am starting season two now. There was so many points that series may not have happened, but it took really four years of hard work to make it a success. Once you produce your first, the second is much easier because of a track record. But the stakes become higher.
take2visualmedia
Well-known member
This is priceless advice and Rob is to be thanked. The only thing that I can add from my experience is this: Don't act like a salesperson! Keep conversations topical. Do a Google search on potential people...this has helped me out tremendously in business. By researching the person you can talk about other things that will peak their interest.
Example: an art director of a local agency I wanted to talk to. I googled his name, which I got from the website, found a lot of professional type sites he's on...then I saw some family site that a relative of his did mentioning what big NY Giants fans they are.
Now I don't follow football at all, but I read the sports headlines that day and was able to squeeze in a comment about football to ease the tension...
Like great lighting and composition, you need to be creative when talking to potential clients.
Thanks Rob!
Example: an art director of a local agency I wanted to talk to. I googled his name, which I got from the website, found a lot of professional type sites he's on...then I saw some family site that a relative of his did mentioning what big NY Giants fans they are.
Now I don't follow football at all, but I read the sports headlines that day and was able to squeeze in a comment about football to ease the tension...
Like great lighting and composition, you need to be creative when talking to potential clients.
Thanks Rob!
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This is great advice for exploring and developing relationships with clients. Mr. Dalton also offers good words on what we've discovered for moving television projects forward.
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shortnstout
Well-known member
This is a great post! I think I have a good question to add. I know there are many different directions in this field, so answers may vary... but what is a basic number of that functioning businesses typically work for? Meaning, say you have 2000 prospects, is it a situation where many of them call you ever couple years, or you are constantly working for like 10 of them? I know there are different ways it can work out, but for those of you with functioning businesses, how does it work for you?
thanks.
thanks.
Thanks for the kind words everyone!
January 2nd marked 29 years in business for us. We currently have a roster of around 600 clients. Some we hear from a few times a year and some we hear from only every 3-4 years. It largely depends on their business product development cycle. Your target market will be reflective their cycles obviously.
In searching for prospective clients, part of your information gathering process is to identify THEIR purchasing potential. For instance if they are a product manufacturer do they introduce new products yearly or is the R&D phase longer?
For us, independent resort developers only build a new resort every 2-4 years. Disney is longer than that. On the other hand, they (Disney) have so many properties that at some point in time during the year 2-3 of them are renovated and need to be shot again. A company like Marriott or Hilton may build dozens of their typical resorts in a year but maybe only one Flagship property that is Five Star.
Prospecting is purely a numbers game where you improve the odds with good research and investing time to become an expert in your market and your client's market.
Speaking of numbers, I see that roughly 6300 people have read or visited this thread as of tonight January 14, 2008. Out of that many people I'd be curious to know how many have tried it and have stuck to it over a 3-6 month period? Some of you have kept in touch with me via PM with questions and progress reports and I welcome others to do the same. I'm trying to visit the Forum more often and it's always best to keep the thread open for others to share and learn. If you have a pressing question, please post it here and PM me.
Robert Starling, SOC
Steadicam Owner Operator
Starling Productions, Inc.
Las Vegas, Nevada
Kegan
Spam Assassin Mod
Hi Robert,
I read this thread last year, but I was wary of it. Having worked in the phone industry, both customer service and telemarketing I couldn't see much difference to what you were trying to get across to us by speaking with these companies.
I'm at a point with my business where I'm willing to try anything to get the necessary exposure. I lost a harddrive full of footage and that has set me back in terms of my portfolio. I really want to attempt this idea and will be trying to think of companies in the area that I can call and speak with. As you said in your original post...if I sit and wait for the business to roll in, the only thing that'll happen is NOTHING!
Reading this thread once again inspired me to really give it my all and I thank you for that,
Kegan
I read this thread last year, but I was wary of it. Having worked in the phone industry, both customer service and telemarketing I couldn't see much difference to what you were trying to get across to us by speaking with these companies.
I'm at a point with my business where I'm willing to try anything to get the necessary exposure. I lost a harddrive full of footage and that has set me back in terms of my portfolio. I really want to attempt this idea and will be trying to think of companies in the area that I can call and speak with. As you said in your original post...if I sit and wait for the business to roll in, the only thing that'll happen is NOTHING!
Reading this thread once again inspired me to really give it my all and I thank you for that,
Kegan
bill totolo
Veteran
lordybob
Well-known member
I bought an XH-A1 when I started my business. I have invested 8000 bucks in it since last year and have just leveled my profits.
THE GEAR GAVE ME SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES. I went against the first post of this topic at 17, and have since been to Germany with MTV, filmed an interview with the Foo Fighters, Worked with Monsoon Pictures and had my footage on TV1, Sky and MTV and have just secured my first job producing an 8 part web series for a company. I have one employee.
Thats not to say there isn't relevant info on this forum. But make sure you make up your own mind on the decisions you choose based on your situation.
Isaac
Spark Productions
THE GEAR GAVE ME SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES. I went against the first post of this topic at 17, and have since been to Germany with MTV, filmed an interview with the Foo Fighters, Worked with Monsoon Pictures and had my footage on TV1, Sky and MTV and have just secured my first job producing an 8 part web series for a company. I have one employee.
Thats not to say there isn't relevant info on this forum. But make sure you make up your own mind on the decisions you choose based on your situation.
Isaac
Spark Productions
Congratulations on your initial success Isaac! You're either very talented, very lucky or maybe a little of both. Even the basic fact that you have t-shirts with your company name on them speaks to your natural ability to promote yourself. Well done!
This thread is focused on building a business model with long-term sustainability and good old fashioned business marketing principles. Your initial success is impressive and an excellent start. I'm sure others here would like a little more information; I certainly would like to hear more details from you.
Since most of the types of jobs / clients you list on your site tend to be one-offs and typically low-modest pay scales would you be willing to share with the rest of us copies of invoices and or your pay scales for those jobs so we can see how you've turned such a handsome profit and what portion of your budget you've dedicated to the marketing/sales/growth of your business in the future? Perhaps you could share as well how you managed to get those jobs and projects?
This thread is focused on building a business model with long-term sustainability and good old fashioned business marketing principles. Your initial success is impressive and an excellent start. I'm sure others here would like a little more information; I certainly would like to hear more details from you.
Since most of the types of jobs / clients you list on your site tend to be one-offs and typically low-modest pay scales would you be willing to share with the rest of us copies of invoices and or your pay scales for those jobs so we can see how you've turned such a handsome profit and what portion of your budget you've dedicated to the marketing/sales/growth of your business in the future? Perhaps you could share as well how you managed to get those jobs and projects?
AwakenedFilms
Veteran
I really took Rob's insight to heart and have been prospecting for an hour a day, 2-3 days a week. I have had a number of call backs, a number of projects landed and have had repeat business with one very notable client - Dunn and Bradstreet.
Building a business can be slow, but there is solid advice to follow, like Rob's words.
One area that has opened a lot of doors for me has been Pro-Bono charity work. I cannot calculate the amount of paid work I have received that is directly or indirectly related to free work that was done for deserving 501c3's. There is something about the law of reciprocity - 'giving and receiving' that has unlocked a lot of growth for Awakened Films LLC.
Yes, you need some equipment to learn your craft. No, better equipment will not make a 'silk purse out of a pig's ear'. Fill your coffers with money. Practice, practice, practice. When the great opportunity arrives, you are fully prepared to jump on it.
Rob, please keep the advice coming. Thanks.
Jason
Building a business can be slow, but there is solid advice to follow, like Rob's words.
One area that has opened a lot of doors for me has been Pro-Bono charity work. I cannot calculate the amount of paid work I have received that is directly or indirectly related to free work that was done for deserving 501c3's. There is something about the law of reciprocity - 'giving and receiving' that has unlocked a lot of growth for Awakened Films LLC.
Yes, you need some equipment to learn your craft. No, better equipment will not make a 'silk purse out of a pig's ear'. Fill your coffers with money. Practice, practice, practice. When the great opportunity arrives, you are fully prepared to jump on it.
Rob, please keep the advice coming. Thanks.
Jason
avp
Well-known member
How very true. Barry...
I am working with a client currently who falls into the "rinky-dink" category. Run me ragged and not appreciate my talents and efforts. And I grossly underbid the project. But, I could only bid on the best information I had. Of course, the final bill will be more but still not enough.
This is a great post...we all can learn from this.
Thanks, Jeffro
adamsvideoproductions.com
lordybob
Well-known member
I also think pro bono work is good. As is drinking beer and playing pool. The more people you know, the more work you have. In New Zealand almost everyone is connected to television or film.
I went to New Zealands best flair bartender to ask if I could practice using the EX1 while he made cocktails. Now he is offering me work making training series with Bacardi.
I charge on average, $30 dollars an hour (NZ) and $200 a day for my gear hire. While I am happy with the business at the moment its still developing. I have not settled on a specialist area yet so each job is almost a new experience. As you may have seen I am studying motion graphics, although I dont want to work in post production.
I am aiming at moving to Europe (London?) in around 2013, as The Hobbit is being shot next year for a bit so i intend to work on that. But every job changes your position.
Because I am still a student I have no real need for income at the moment so I am pouring all profits back into the business until its secure. Gear wise I will probably be selling the XH-A1 next year as I intend to upgrade or consider renting gear as owning gear is good for some things but I'm not sure its good to hold on to the same tech for too long.
Thanks Rob.
I went to New Zealands best flair bartender to ask if I could practice using the EX1 while he made cocktails. Now he is offering me work making training series with Bacardi.
I charge on average, $30 dollars an hour (NZ) and $200 a day for my gear hire. While I am happy with the business at the moment its still developing. I have not settled on a specialist area yet so each job is almost a new experience. As you may have seen I am studying motion graphics, although I dont want to work in post production.
I am aiming at moving to Europe (London?) in around 2013, as The Hobbit is being shot next year for a bit so i intend to work on that. But every job changes your position.
Because I am still a student I have no real need for income at the moment so I am pouring all profits back into the business until its secure. Gear wise I will probably be selling the XH-A1 next year as I intend to upgrade or consider renting gear as owning gear is good for some things but I'm not sure its good to hold on to the same tech for too long.
Thanks Rob.
It hasn't been said enough, but thank you soooo much for this valuable insight. Shooting, editing and lighting are the easy part compared with marketing and sales!
I've taken your advice seriously and have made a couple of prospects despite not knowing what the hell I'm doing. I'm good at winging it!
In an earlier post, you said you would explore the actual conversation you would have with the prospect once you got a hold of them. This, for me has been a little bit of the hard and awkward part, so advice on what to do next would be more than a little helpful. I'm not trying to "seal the deal," on the spot, just make a contact, be polite and send them some quality info, and hopefully meet with them in person.
Again, thanks for all the priceless advice from someone who has SUSTAINED his business for 29 years!
I've taken your advice seriously and have made a couple of prospects despite not knowing what the hell I'm doing. I'm good at winging it!
In an earlier post, you said you would explore the actual conversation you would have with the prospect once you got a hold of them. This, for me has been a little bit of the hard and awkward part, so advice on what to do next would be more than a little helpful. I'm not trying to "seal the deal," on the spot, just make a contact, be polite and send them some quality info, and hopefully meet with them in person.
Again, thanks for all the priceless advice from someone who has SUSTAINED his business for 29 years!