How to get 24p with a FX1

JoeFowler

JoeFowler

Well-known member
This might better be severed in the FCP forum, but I know that other NLE's can do the same thing. When I edit in a 24 fps timeline in FCP and deinterlace the footage I can make my little Sony HI8 analog look a lot like 24p footage. This is viewed on a NTSC monitor and burned to DVD. The resolution and color etc is no where near the DVX of course, but it made me wonder if you took FXI 1080i footage in a 24fps timeline and deinterlaced it, would you still get awesome quality, or is my theory not very sound. Has anyone tried this, and how was the results? I own one dvx100a and am thinking of getting a second, but if I can get 1080 and native 16x9 and manipulate to 24p, why not spend a bit more for the FX1? Let me know brothers.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

You might check out this place,,,,but here is what they say,

The Sony HDR FX1 and Transfer to 35mm Film

The FX1 has the potential to create a much sharper image for transfer to film than any DV camera. The frame size is 1440 by 1080, over four times the number of pixels as an NTSC camera. The camera does not a have a high-quality 24P or 25P shooting mode, however interlaced video can be converted to 24P or 25P using DVFilm Maker, with excellent results.

The converted 24P/25P footage can be created with any suitable Quicktime codec/format, including MJPEG, YUV, and uncompressed (RGB) format, and then edited with any quicktime-capable editing system such as Premiere Pro, Vegas, Avid or Final Cut Pro. The frame size remains 1440 x 1080 all the way through the final cut and transfer to film.

There is a great advantage to converting the footage to true 24P/25P quicktime before editing. The conversion to 24 fps is cleaner and higher quality, especially if slow- or fast motion effects will be applied in editing, vs. doing the conversion afterwards. 24P progressive-scan frames are easier to work with when applying motion graphics, composites, or other visual effects. Also the data size and performance requirements for playback are 20% less. DVFilm will also transfer 1440 x 1080 frames to 35mm for the same rate as a PAL or NTSC transfer to film, provided the footage is supplied to us as 24P Quicktime on hard drive, and DVFilm Maker is used to do the conversion before editing. This results in a cost savings of about $10,000 for a feature-length film.


It's DVFilm,,,I think they are one of the sponser of this board. It goes into more detail.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

I've read that the new update to Sony Vegas allows for a very smooth and pleasing conversion of HDV 60i to 24p.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Yes, the Sony's footage can be converted to 24p quite well, but the method you choose is very bad. Motion shots would be choppy and there would be tons of strobing.

Your method goes from 60i to "30p" (with a resolution loss of 1/2 and a shutter speed of 1/60th of a second), then tosses out every fifth frame (unless you use frame blending, which can be equally weird.) This might be acceptable for talking heads that moved very little, but it could not handle motion acceptably. Magic bullet like deinterlacing tools (or shooting in cineframe 25 (on the PAL version) would both work great and give you tons of resolution, however.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Shoot 60i, don't use either of the Cineframe modes...

Lots of labs doing stellar 60i transfer and upgrade work.

I guess I'm gonna have to break down and get a Z1 if Panny doesn't cough something up soon.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Yep, but Policar was suggesting to use Cineframe25, not CF30 or CF24. Only the cineframe25 on the PAL FX1 or on all Z1:s is a good way to get filmlike motion. This will ofcourse lead into a resolution loss, which according to some is 30%-50% vertically. This would then lead to atleast (1080/2 =) 1440X540 pixels of practically speaking progressive picture. DVX100A PAL can do (576 X 0.75 =) 720X432 pixels (This 0.75 times the vertical is due to the fact it doesn't do native 16:9).
And if you want to keep the vertical resolution during non moving parts of the image, then you can ofcourse use some adaptive deinterlacer, that will only deinterlace the movement.

I currently shoot all my material in Cineframe25. I do lot's of color correcting and stuff, but I just hate doing the time consuming deinterlacing in post. And I also like to shoot, and edit while looking at "progressive" motion.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

I am just trying to understand;

Why would you get a camera that shoots HD 1080 (which really only delivers about 775 lines) and then in turn de-interlace it into about 390 lines? Seems to defeat the purpose. Why not just shoot 24p and retain 480?

(This is a subject I am still wrapping my head around)
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Resolution runs both ways – horizontally and vertically. You still have double the horizontal resolution, meaning twice the pixels running horizontally, compared to DV.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Try this. Take a clip; crop it in half, vertically, so that you have only the right half or left half of the clip remaining. Then, stretch that half to fill out the whole frame. The “new” clip will have all of the vertical resolution but only half of the horizontal. If you can see a difference, it will give you an idea of the concept.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Based on what? Did he provide any examples as I can't find a link. I read what he said... but no footage.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Shannon is only rendering out to NTSC DV in that thread. Fine for what he was trying to accomplish (and he’s obviously thrilled, as his posts there and here have said), but it’s no longer HD doing it that way. FYI.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Doesn't the human brain percieve vertical resolution first and foremost?
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Yes, but someone with a NTSC FX1 can also try to do the same on a HD 1080-24p (1920x1080; 23,976 fps) or a HD 720-24p (1280x720; 23,976 fps) Vegas time line.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

What do you mean? In either case res is lost - and it's pretty significant as has been detailed. It shouldn't matter what timeline you use. Please correct me if I am missing something!
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

[quote author=SergejIvanovits link=board=sony;num=1106586200;start=15#16 date=02/03/05 at 12:30:57]Yes, but someone with a NTSC FX1 can also try to do the same on a HD 1080-24p (1920x1080; 23,976 fps) or a HD 720-24p (1280x720; 23,976 fps) Vegas time line. [/quote]

Theoretically yes, but that's not clear in either Shannon's post or yours. They only mentioned DV. Someone reading them may not think to try it in the HD resolutions.

Also, the results he got in 24p DV do not necessarily mean the same good results will be had in the 24p HD resolutions. They just might, but no one has posted results of an attempt.

Just trying to avoid confusion.
 
Re: How to get 24p with a FX1

Maybe a clean 24 fps film time line is better. I don't have any ntsc now but give it a try if you have.
 
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