How much in camera and how much in post?

J

jghenderson

Well-known member
Hello. This is my first post here but i've been lurking around for a few weeks. This seems like an awesome community to learn about filmmaking (definitely much better than IMDB).

So I finally got my t2i last week and have been playing around with it. It's my first DSLR (heck its my first legit video camera) but even though i'm mostly a novice i've been pretty pleased with the results so far.

However my video is of course not yet what I want it to be. My specific question is i'm wondering how you would make an image akin to the visual aesthetic I tend to be attracted to.

My best example of what I like is Children of Men. Here's a sample photo of the color style I really like http://www.moviesbuzz.com/english/reviews/childrenofmen/movie014.jpg Also http://library.duke.edu/lilly/film-video/images/children-of-men.jpg

Basically I want to know how to make my film have that style. Now obviously I realize that movie was made with incredibly expensive equipment and highly talented people (the DP, Emmanuel Lubezki, is in my opinion the best cinematographer in the business), so I don't expect my films to look so good, but would like to get as close as possible.

So how much of that kind of look is done in camera during shooting, and how much of it is in post? And how exactly is it done?

I really appreciate any help I can get.
 
so much contribute to the aesthetic of a "look" that it's hard to put a number on it. But to answer your question in a broad sense. Camera does contribute to that look you're looking for, and so does post editing, but not as much as everything else; composition, props, set design, lighting, etc.

If there were some kind of "look" file you can load in FCP/VEGAS/Premiere, or whatever you use, I'm sure it wouldn't look close to those shots because of "everything else".

To me, as a fan of movies, what separated film or cinema look vs amateur video, was the "everything else".

Sorry I can't give you a better answer, but there's just so much that contribute to the look you're looking for.
 
What editing sweet do you have? Several of them have basic color wheel things (for more advanced, like grim said you will need someting like magic bullet)

I was where you were about a year ago without much of a clue. I still barely have half a clue, but this is a really good explination on how you can use color correction to get different looks, and the guy explains how he gets the looks of differne tblockbuster movies (TerminatorSalvation, Transformers, etc..)

http://library.creativecow.net/arti...iant-blockbuster-film-look/video-tutorial.php
 
That first image you posted - that's all set/shot design/lighting - maybe a little yellow push but there's so many ways that can be accomplished - and note, the whites are *super white* so here there's some interesting stuff going on.

That 2nd shot, it's a bit desaturated with maybe a slight little push with magenta/red - so much of this may have been accomplished with lighting, gels, filters, film stocks - it's just really hard to say unless you can ask the cinematographer.

I think it may be less helpful to try to figure out how to make your footage look like someone else's right away especially using grading - grading is not a simple thing (despite what magic bullets people would have you believe) and it's only something that should be done on top of something already well shot. I'd concentrate much more on getting as good an image as you can straight from the camera, get good at exposure, shot design, color, etc., get really good at that, and then you'll be able to grade in a way that makes your projects look their best, but I think grading should be thought of as waaaaay secondary, because it's far beyond what even the first steps of color correction ought to be, and I think if you're already thinking about grading, you may be trying to run before you can walk.

My general feeling is that a lot of the best stuff is "graded" less than you think it may really be, once you understand light there's a lot you can do prior to hitting post.
 
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jonE5 said:
What editing sweet do you have? Several of them have basic color wheel things (for more advanced, like grim said you will need someting like magic bullet)

I was where you were about a year ago without much of a clue. I still barely have half a clue, but this is a really good explination on how you can use color correction to get different looks, and the guy explains how he gets the looks of differne tblockbuster movies (TerminatorSalvation, Transformers, etc..)

http://library.creativecow.net/arti...iant-blockbuster-film-look/video-tutorial.php
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I was looking for that link for this thread. I think the answer to your question "How much in camera and how much in post?" is simple. What can you do in either realm? Are you a color correction wizard? Are you more experienced behind the camera and in working with lights? There are a lot of ways to effect the image and there is some crossover where the same needs may be met in either arena. I would stick with what I know and practice, practice, practice. Perfect practice makes perfect.
 
jghenderson said:
Unfortunately Magic Bullet is a bit more expensive than I am willing to spend right now :(
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It's just a package of color grading. Wich is the thing you're mumbling about in the first place, first picture is just a lot of GREENYELLOW and the other one seems to be medlow saturation... you probably need to study movies in a more technical viewpoint with theese types of quesions; you're viewing final-output cinematography (ie the film), gotta wrap your head around the specific parts, color grading is just a minor thing (magic bullet is a good example actually, a lot of amateurs use it, and it SHOWS...)

Go out there and shoot, experience is basicly the only thing that will do it. You'll know how to get what you want, when you know the components that make up cinemathography.
 
I can't see exactly what's going on because i'm on a terrible monitor right now but a simple way to recreate that in post would be to push the shadows towards cyan/green and the highlights in the opposite, towards orange. If you have final cut you can just use the 3way color corrector. I usually use Color but 3way works fine.
 
Most professionals shoot their stuff with neutral colors settings and color grade in post. But to create "that look" I'd say lighting is crucial.
 
knowing After Effects

knowing After Effects

AllAroundFilmLV said:
Learn After Effects. That way you can use all your new AE knowledge to color grade in post. That's what I do.
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It's a powerful tool. Knowing the backend capabilities, from experience, makes shooting easier for me. I shoot a really flat neutral video "negative" I light the set this way too.

Doing this lets me take full advantage of the digital post production pipeline I use. In fact, the whole chain, from script to screen is digital. I had to learn how different exposures affected which type of camera I was using, which formats reproduced well and the limitations of those that didn't.

Coming from a 35mm film background made the transition to DLSR easier, I knew the controls at least, but knowing digital postproduction helps the most. There are a lot of power in the tools. Color Correction is in itself a whole and complete world you can specialize in like 3D modeling or texturing.

So if you're new to all of this, the best thing I would suggest are free:

1. Go to www.prolost.com. Read the blog started about 3 years ago and read it until you are current. Go to the Prolost bookstore and pick out something else to read this month.

2. Go to www.videocopilot.net. This time you want to watch the online library of visual effects turorials. You'll learn basic color correction and a whole lot more.

Sometimes the best things in life are free and it's true here. Happy reading and welcome.
 
If you don't have the money to get a proper suite to grade you have to use what you have. Fortunately you do have the means.

You can easily do the overall look of the 2nd outdoor shot in camera with canons picture style editor. I have created tons of in camera kinda bleach bypass/war style's, and I am constantly improving them. So provided you have the costume and set design right you can make a good war outdoor look in camera pretty easily.

This guy over here is a pro and all his looks were done in camera, including his war style.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevin32832/collections/72157619857091156/

As to weather you should use them for filming is highly debatable (I would highly recommend against it but you don't have color,AE, or Magic Bullets), but they make for cool times photographing in RAW.

I would upload my older attempt of this style but I don't know how.
I can email it to someone if they want.
 
I'd say shoot as close to neutral as possible then edit with a certain style (in FCP or AE). Sounds much easier said than done but some of the links people provided will give you a good head start to achieve this.
 
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