C100: how much do you charge per hour for freelancing with c100 ?

S

Shawnvfx

Well-known member
Im wondering, Just the camera body only with 24-105 and yourself, for some simple works like livefeed for events / receptions, how much do you charge hourly ?

Im currently charging 35/hr but I think its too low, since C100 rental per day is around 100. If Im shooting an event which is like 5 hours I only earn $150, thats nothing.

but on the other hand your work is simple, just tripod and zoom in/out.


How much do you charge for these kind of extra money ?
 
$600 is the standard rate.

$250 would be a standard rental.

$800 maybe?

Not that I ever get this much when I freelance, but it would be the standard, respectable rate if it's your primary source of income. I'm still shooting primarily as a hobby, but I ask $500/$350 half day and am told it's way, way too low.

Also, don't do hourly. Do day rate, or at worst day and half day.
 
Policar said:
$600 is the standard rate.

$250 would be a standard rental.

$800 maybe?

Not that I ever get this much when I freelance, but it would be the standard, respectable rate if it's your primary source of income. I'm still shooting primarily as a hobby, but I ask $500/$350 half day and am told it's way, way too low.

Also, don't do hourly. Do day rate, or at worst day and half day.
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then what about over time ? If they hire you full day then you shoot from 7 am to midnight ( that usually happens to me for things like weddings)

If I charge 35/hour, I get around 700 for 19 hours right ? that happened few times. and I was extremly exhausted, and the very next day I just laying on my bed and stare off the space for the entire day.
 
Day rates are usually based on a ten hour day. Every hour past that is time and a half. Ex: $800 per 10 hour day. If you work 12 then the two hours of OT would be $240 more. ($80 per hr., time and a half would be $80+$40 or $120 x 2 hrs of OT). The reason to not charge an hourly rate up front is say the shoot only goes 6 hrs, there is nothing else you can book for the remaining day, so you should get your full day rate regardless of how long the day goes. You are guaranteeing your client you are there for the full 10 if needed. Anything over ten and you have your OT rate.
That's how it works when I work for major companies like ESPN, Food network, A&E NBC Sports etc....(not with the C100 but in general).
 
Yeah, generally folks don't do hourly in our industry.

Not to start a s*%tstorm but I do half day (for 0-5 hours) and full day (5-10) rates . True, you usually can't book the other half of the day but that's one reason a half day rate is usually two thirds rather than half of the day rate. Also the "full day only, bro" thing may rub some clients the wrong way. I understand if you're so in demand that you're probably going to get multiple calls for any given day and if that's the case full day only may make sense since you'd be constantly screwing yourself over by taking one gig (lower paying) over another (possibly higher paying). I and many folks aren't so in demand and so in order to work with the client/compromise and land more gigs, even if they don't pay as much, will do a half day rate. Some money on a given day is better than none. Also, I don't discount my gear for half day, only labor (i.e. like a rental house).

I price myself (labor) and my gear separately to arrive at those rates. Seems like rental rates for gear are usually 3-5% of the purchase price for that gear. So C100 ($5000? $6000?) with that lens ($1000?) $350ish maybe? That's just the gear, not you. Mics count too.

As for the rate for your labor, that is generally based on experience plus what the market will bear in your town. A guy with 25 years experience is simply not going to make as much in a small town as in a big city, and a guy in a big city with 2 years experience shouldn't try to charge as much as the guy with 25.
 
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into this topic, but discussing specific professional fees on a forum such as this may be a violation of Federal Anti-Trust laws. When I was a member of the Professional Photographers of America, we were not allowed to discuss specific dollar amounts regarding fees in seminars or online because Federal Anti-Trust laws could consider the discussion as price fixing. The administrator(s) of this forum may need to research the legality of discussing fees online.

Sorry.
 
nutmegger said:
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into this topic, but discussing specific professional fees on a forum such as this may be a violation of Federal Anti-Trust laws. When I was a member of the Professional Photographers of America, we were not allowed to discuss specific dollar amounts regarding fees in seminars or online because Federal Anti-Trust laws could consider the discussion as price fixing. The administrator(s) of this forum may need to research the legality of discussing fees online.

Sorry.
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Poppycock.

Discussing this only helps those who are up and coming in the industry as they may not know about day rates/gear rates and learning about it here and on other forums is why boards like this exist.

Go be a mod/lawyer somewhere else.
 
nutmegger said:
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into this topic, but discussing specific professional fees on a forum such as this may be a violation of Federal Anti-Trust laws. When I was a member of the Professional Photographers of America, we were not allowed to discuss specific dollar amounts regarding fees in seminars or online because Federal Anti-Trust laws could consider the discussion as price fixing. The administrator(s) of this forum may need to research the legality of discussing fees online.

Sorry.
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That is hilarious.
These are individuals just asking about what might be a fair rate for their labor and equipment rental. No one is discussing price fixing. Like that could really happen in this economy and business environment. There is always someone to undercut your rate these days. The only way to fix your rate is to have the abilities and experience that someone needs and provide work of a high quality in a reliable way every time. That gets you work at a fixed rate in this business.
 
Rates for producers and shooters can be $0 to $20k per day. You negotiate what you are worth to them that day/week/year. Gear can be all over the map. If you're showing up with the C100 plus 20 years worth of grip, lenses, tricks, etc, then you are going (one hopes) to charge more than a guy with a C100 and 24-105.

The client needs you. They cannot do what they want to do without you. That should be running in the background every second of every shoot/propro/negotiation day you are involved in. You are the secret sauce.
 
Anyone who calls up and says that it is a low budget film and only needs a couple of hours, I politely ask him to look elsewhere.

I am an artist and not a robot who is there to trip the shutter button. I have rates and if the producer can't afford, then I simply let it go. There is wear and tear of gear. I have dropped lenses and have spent money on repairs. I suggest people should do a calculation of the fixed cost they have incurred in buying equipment, the number of assignments they are going to do, the running costs and determine their rates.
 
mcbob said:
Reposted many a time in its short life:
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2013/08/01/how-to-succeed-as-a-creative-long-term-know-your-c-o-d-b/
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I know but according to that chart, I have to earn 90k a year to put food on table / maintain the gears (only update a C100 range camera in every 4 years, not update lenses)

and 90k a year in my town requires 10 yrs + exp and owns RED cams

I only make 1/3 of that and Im still asking money from parents which is so sad.

I know referal plays a huge role in this industry, just want to get some advise from you guys of how to raise your pay when dealing with clients. I am so bad at talking / doing business. Im an artist, not a salesman.
 
Shawnvfx said:
Im an artist, not a salesman.
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I will give you an example of how people approach.

Recently I was offered to do a feature film. Then he was exasperated at my day rate saying that he can get an EPIC package at close to 500 usd per day. Then I told him that I had quoted along with tons of equipment and it was infact very cheap for him. He responded by saying that he can get get that equipment much cheaper at around 100 usd per day. So I asked him the contact details of that rental agency which can provide similar package at such ridiculous prices. As I would then happily rent that ridiculously cheap package as my B camera for my own shoots as well as offer to my clients. He then came back and said that he was quoting a 5D cost. Then some emails were exchanged and then he said that he is not getting much funding and requested me to agree for payments later and take some profits. :) That is how people try to exploit others. They take a chance and if you agree, then you get exploited. Payments later or after profits means you will never get a pie. It may ofcourse help you in the delusion that you are investing for future profits. :)

During negotiations, when someone has spent a lot of time, generally there is an aversion to say no. People tend to agree even if the terms don't suit them. Some industry veterans exploit that and slowly and steadily pull you into a situation where you agree next to nothing.

The moment someone says that you will get a name by shooting the film or I will get an award, I tell them I am not interested. I don't chase name and fame. That is a byproduct. If by doing a film or documentary and if that can help in bringing about awareness about an issue then I am ready to be slightly more accommodating with my rates.

I politely decline when I realise that someone is trying to exploit. Or simply ignore such people, even if that is bad manners not to respond to them. Even if I were to starve for a few days, I will do so, but I can't live knowing that I have been exploited.

If you are getting tensed because you are sitting idle, then go out and shoot and improve your show reel. Shoot personal projects or collaborate with other budding artists and take up scripts for producing short films. Put up those short films in youtube and if one of those gets sufficient hits, then take it to a producer and ask for funding. There is no single way to realise your dream.

PS: You may like to have a look at this: http://www.indiawilds.com/diary/learnings-from-wild-india-competition-success/
 
You should factor in the rate for you, and then the rate for your gear separately. That is your A-Rate. Once you get more gear, start factoring in those items ala carte, or make a big number if someone wants the full package. If someone asks you to work for less, you have to decide if its worth it based on the relationship and your financial position. There are no hard and fast rules. Don't do favors, but also don't let an opportunity sneak by you if the alternative is spending a day at home.

In my market 12 hours seems to be more standard than 10. Which is nonsense, but I deal with it. ACs usually net $350-600, ops $650-1250, and DP runs $1250-2500. All of that is before gear. Those aren't my prices, just seem to be the standard offer from producers on legit projects. YMMV.
 
indiawilds said:
I will give you an example of how people approach.

Recently I was offered to do a feature film. Then he was exasperated at my day rate saying that he can get an EPIC package at close to 500 usd per day. Then I told him that I had quoted along with tons of equipment and it was infact very cheap for him. He responded by saying that he can get get that equipment much cheaper at around 100 usd per day. So I asked him the contact details of that rental agency which can provide similar package at such ridiculous prices. As I would then happily rent that ridiculously cheap package as my B camera for my own shoots as well as offer to my clients. He then came back and said that he was quoting a 5D cost. Then some emails were exchanged and then he said that he is not getting much funding and requested me to agree for payments later and take some profits. :) That is how people try to exploit others. They take a chance and if you agree, then you get exploited. Payments later or after profits means you will never get a pie. It may ofcourse help you in the delusion that you are investing for future profits. :)

During negotiations, when someone has spent a lot of time, generally there is an aversion to say no. People tend to agree even if the terms don't suit them. Some industry veterans exploit that and slowly and steadily pull you into a situation where you agree next to nothing.

The moment someone says that you will get a name by shooting the film or I will get an award, I tell them I am not interested. I don't chase name and fame. That is a byproduct. If by doing a film or documentary and if that can help in bringing about awareness about an issue then I am ready to be slightly more accommodating with my rates.

I politely decline when I realise that someone is trying to exploit. Or simply ignore such people, even if that is bad manners not to respond to them. Even if I were to starve for a few days, I will do so, but I can't live knowing that I have been exploited.

If you are getting tensed because you are sitting idle, then go out and shoot and improve your show reel. Shoot personal projects or collaborate with other budding artists and take up scripts for producing short films. Put up those short films in youtube and if one of those gets sufficient hits, then take it to a producer and ask for funding. There is no single way to realise your dream.

PS: You may like to have a look at this: http://www.indiawilds.com/diary/learnings-from-wild-india-competition-success/
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thank you so much for the advise !
 
nutmegger said:
I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into this topic, but discussing specific professional fees on a forum such as this may be a violation of Federal Anti-Trust laws. When I was a member of the Professional Photographers of America, we were not allowed to discuss specific dollar amounts regarding fees in seminars or online because Federal Anti-Trust laws could consider the discussion as price fixing. The administrator(s) of this forum may need to research the legality of discussing fees online.

Sorry.
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I vaguely remember a story about some photographers in SF who were actually charged with price fixing after they discussed their rates for a certain magazine. IIRC, the magazine brought suit against their freelancers in an attempt to beat them down on their rates. The difference there was that they were being specific and agreed on what they should charge that client. That's the big no-no.

Read this for more on what's kosher when talking about pricing: http://www.photoattorney.com/antitrust-activity-and-price-fixing-by-photographers/
 
Andrius,
Thanks for the link to the Photo Attorney's web site. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this is a touchy subject. When I was photographing weddings and portraits back in the 90's, my fees were based on what I needed to stay in business and make a living. There were photographer's in my area who charged more and less than I for similar services. Your best sales tool should be your work, not your price.
 
nutmegger said:
Andrius,
Thanks for the link to the Photo Attorney's web site. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this is a touchy subject. When I was photographing weddings and portraits back in the 90's, my fees were based on what I needed to stay in business and make a living. There were photographer's in my area who charged more and less than I for similar services. Your best sales tool should be your work, not your price.
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exactly, Im kinda new in this industry,1.5 years of exp, only shot 50+ weddings in 2 years, 20+ love story films, and 10+ commercials (really really low budget ones), 30+ youtube tutorials, and countless speeches.

film is an area that I wanted to get into but never got a chance

and Since I loaned the fund from bank to get a fully camera package including support gears for a total of 25k so that gears arent hold me back while doing freelancing (ppl expect you to own gears and transportation in my town, rental isnt realistic unless its a union job from Hollywood feature) , Im really under stress to earn these money back while make a living.

its been tough that Im afraid if I increase my rate, ppl are going to look elsewhere and I have nothing to do.

if a proper rate is $500 a day. For me its like $300 or stay home. If I compromise and choose $300, Im losing money, but its still better than nothing.

and of course, doing freelance ppl always give you cards, eventually you shoot for nothing, You get no footage in hand after shoot. (this happens a lot for weddings)， they are going to find someone else for editing。


But keep shooting is good for practicing you know, I constantly learning tips and tricks from others like stillmotion and Joe simon and devinsupertramp etc etc. and Im still spending lots of money on seminars like the Alex bruno, stillmotion, and Steadicam Annual week long training etc to fuel myself.

But its just hard to earn these back.
 
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