How much better does uncompressed look than HDV?

Moseph

Moseph

Veteran
With so many people going to tapeless formats, I feel almost like HDV is becoming obsolete, leaving me in a bit of a dilemma. I've been wanting to by my own A1 for some time now, but I could save up a bit more and get a G1, and then save up even more and buy a nanoflash. Does uncompressed HD really look $5000 better than HDV, especially taking into account that so far, and probably for a while untill I get a serious job, my stuff gets downrezzed to 720p and put on the internet? I know obviously the source footage will look better, but even that seems like it wouldn't be THAT much better when you take into account that the A1 has native 1080i sensors. I know all of the stuff I've shot on the A1 loooks pretty sharp unless we're talking about motion blur, which I think blurs out some of the artifacts from the mpeg 2 compression that HDV uses.
So does anyone know of any comparissons / have their own? Thanks.
 
Well, the nanoflash does not record uncompressed HD. Darn few recorders can, and none that I know of are less than $60k. Does uncompressed HD look that much better than HDV. Depends on the camera. So answer your question yourself. Plug your camera's outputs into the inputs on an HDTV. Monitor the live signal as you move the camera round, zoom in tight on things, etc. Then record 30 seconds of the same and play it back. How does it compare?

Only you can determine if the gap in quality is worth the money. For some of us, it's worth every penny, and more. If I was only doing internet video, I'd probably still be shooting SD.
 
PerroneFord said:
If I was only doing internet video, I'd probably still be shooting SD.
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A lot of internet "HD" video would likely be improved if it was (good) SD. Over-compressing HD doesn't necessarily give you a better image than you can achieve with SD at the same bitrates, that's for sure. Good quality 720p video though, (properly encoded) at high enough bitrates can look stunning (by comparison to SD) though, and a lot of folks have 5Mbps or faster broadband nowadays (with cable modem), which is enough bandwidth for most typical footage to look great, streamed in real time, at 720p.
 
Well, the reason I brought up the thought of getting a G1 and nanoflash is that the G1 would be more affordable, and then LATER on I could upgrade by getting the nanoflash. I didn't realize that it doesn't record in uncompressed, which I really should have, but It's still an upgrade over HDV.
But it looks like I'll probably just stick to HDV for now, its not like I'll really need any sort of solid state medium any time soon at all. It's not ideal, especially since I shoot skating which has a crapload of movement, but it's still way better than 480i.
 
I'm still using an A1 with HDV tape because many of my clients are demanding a physical archive of the media, they want the tape. Digital media takes constant attention to maintain, and for most of the small production companies that I work for, they don't have the extra time or cash to maintain a digital library. It's much easier to file the tape, and there's a lot to be said for that.

However, if I want or need something shot to drive space and/or with more color space and less compression, I just record the component output straight to an AJA Ki-Pro. 10-bit ProRes 422 footage for less than 4k. Can't beat that.
 
I seriously doubt that recording uncompressed HD video would be ideal (even if it wasn't cost prohibitive). Not only is it difficult on the acquisition end, it's a bit of a PITA to edit (think lots of huge hard drives in RAID arrays). A nanoflash may not record uncompressed video, but it can record visually lossless video (or awfully dang close to visually lossless). As a practical matter AVCHD would probably work quite well for you. AVCHD (at full bore) image quality is pretty dang good (a significant move up from HDV). Shooting skating, you might want to look at shooting 720p60 - much better for capturing motion smoothly. An HMC150 or HMC40 could work really well.
 
cowpunk,
Thanks for bringing up the Ki-Pro, I never really even knew about them but it looks good, and would pretty much eliminate the possibility of me going for a G1.
Robert,
Believe me, I did consider both of those cameras being a panasonic owner for the past three years (DVC30). The thing that ruins the HMC40 for me is the sensors. 1/4th inch CMOS. I can't stand rolling shutter artifacts (yes, I have seen them on THIS camera), and I doubt the low light performance could really be all that good, which is another thing I definitely am concerned about. And I do realize that unfortunately, the world will go with CMOSs because they're cheaper, just like the world went from vidicon tubes to CCDs, but while they're still around I'm definitely sticking with them.
That said, yeah the HMC150 would probably do well, but I'll just have to wait. It's not like I'll be buying anything anytime soon when I can use an A1 from my school for free combined with the low productivity of my friends lately, unless I come across some sort of amazing deal on ebay.
 
Heck, if you can borrow an A1 free from school anytime you like, and it works pretty good for your purposes, I'd suggest holding off at least until Canon finally introduces a prosumer level AVCHD camcorder. I've got to think that they will by at least this time next year. Their HDV camcorders really are getting a bit dated (as in almost obsolete), and I'd be really somewhat surprised if the next new* prosumer camcorder they introduce isn't an AVCHD cam. (*By new camcorder, I mean a genuinely new cam - not some minor update to the old lineup, which relies on imagers that were once among the best out there, but that really don't compete very well anymore, with the more modern imagers being offered in most their competitors' cams).

I suppose, for shooting skating, CCD imagers might actually work noticeably better. For my purposes, CMOS is great. I'm betting Canon's prosumer AVCHD offering will wind up utilizing CMOS, so the HMC150 may still wind up being your best bet, even a year or two from now.
 
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