How many stops of latitude?
- Thread starter HeyAndy
- Start date
On the APS-C cams, about 11.5 Ev at iso 100, down to about 9 Ev at iso 2500 after which the image is pretty much crap. Cinestyle actually reduces the noise free usable dynamic range, especially a higher iso's IMHO.
Use the newer Flaat series of pictures styles from Samuel Hurtado at http://www.similaar.com/foto/flaat-picture-styles/index.html. They are much easier to grade and exhibit radically less noise in the shadows than Cinestyle in my experience.
Here's my latest pieces using Flaat10p
http://youtu.be/GjwHM7zFu_c?hd=1
http://youtu.be/w8dZ0NLP8Eo?hd=1
Virtually all of those clips were shot in the worst possible dynamic range conditions you could have, mid day sun and are about as good as I've ever seen with a Canon APS-C cam.
Cheers,
Pete
Use the newer Flaat series of pictures styles from Samuel Hurtado at http://www.similaar.com/foto/flaat-picture-styles/index.html. They are much easier to grade and exhibit radically less noise in the shadows than Cinestyle in my experience.
Here's my latest pieces using Flaat10p
http://youtu.be/GjwHM7zFu_c?hd=1
http://youtu.be/w8dZ0NLP8Eo?hd=1
Virtually all of those clips were shot in the worst possible dynamic range conditions you could have, mid day sun and are about as good as I've ever seen with a Canon APS-C cam.
Cheers,
Pete
Thanks.
So does this mean that the native dynamic range on the Canon 5D Mark II/Mark III is comparatively better than those on Canon APS-C cameras?
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Usable dynamic range in real world situations.... 7 or 8 stops... maybe.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
@c3hammer: thanks for the support, appreciate it, and happy you're happy 
@HeyAndy: DR in all the current Canons seems to be exactly the same, including 5D2 and 5D3, because it's limited by the in-camera processing (which doesn't seem to have changed dramatically with the 5D3 either), at around 11.5 stops
@gonzo_entertainment: I usually talk about DR in absolute terms (i.e. what is different from clipped black), since "usable" (i.e. what is not so noisy that you'd rather clip it) is a very subjective matter; even so, 7 or 8 stops seems really low to me, you must really hate noise-in-the-shadows!! Even "portrait with contrast=-1" has 8.5 stops
and Prolost Flat ("neutral with contrast=-4") has 9:
@HeyAndy: DR in all the current Canons seems to be exactly the same, including 5D2 and 5D3, because it's limited by the in-camera processing (which doesn't seem to have changed dramatically with the 5D3 either), at around 11.5 stops
@gonzo_entertainment: I usually talk about DR in absolute terms (i.e. what is different from clipped black), since "usable" (i.e. what is not so noisy that you'd rather clip it) is a very subjective matter; even so, 7 or 8 stops seems really low to me, you must really hate noise-in-the-shadows!! Even "portrait with contrast=-1" has 8.5 stops
and Prolost Flat ("neutral with contrast=-4") has 9:
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Samuel H
Major Contributor
This video shows a couple of the things I was talking about: https://vimeo.com/39899742 That's the D800 with Flaat_13p, which delivers 12.7 stops of DR. Is that usable? Well, actually I'd say it's not: that heavily posterized noise in the shadows is absolutely horrible. But, as you'll also see there, if you're not afraid of applying heavy noise-reduction, and need as much DR as you can get for a very specific shot, well, you may consider it an option. Also, the still taken with the same picture style is absolutely clean: as with the canons, it's not the sensor, but the in-camera image processing that's limiting the DR you get in video mode.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
It's the highlights where I have the issue. 5D with cine will do deep deep in the shadows and minor noise doesn't bother me one bit. It's the clip on the highlights that kills the DR (with or without using cine).
Samuel H
Major Contributor
indeed, the clip in the highlights is an unavoidable hard clip
and I don't think CineStyle has made that clip any less painful by trying so hard to fight against it, and failing to achieve anything (it's a hard clip, related to the sensor's full well capacity, so fighting it with a picture style leads absolutely nowhere)
but I think exposing for that leaves you a solid 10 stops of DR going downwards, 11 or 11.5 if you don't mind some noise in the shadows (not as heavily posterized as Flaat_13 on the Nikons)
still, many could complain that cramming so much latitude on an 8-bit deep color space is not a good idea... (again, "gentle deonise, gentle add grain" is the -imperfect- medicine for this)
the inside-the-train-with-visible-exteriors shots in this music video were shot with Flaat_12 on a Canon DSLR, and I think the results are quite good (for something that costs 1/100 of the price of an Alexa):
https://vimeo.com/40353013
and I don't think CineStyle has made that clip any less painful by trying so hard to fight against it, and failing to achieve anything (it's a hard clip, related to the sensor's full well capacity, so fighting it with a picture style leads absolutely nowhere)
but I think exposing for that leaves you a solid 10 stops of DR going downwards, 11 or 11.5 if you don't mind some noise in the shadows (not as heavily posterized as Flaat_13 on the Nikons)
still, many could complain that cramming so much latitude on an 8-bit deep color space is not a good idea... (again, "gentle deonise, gentle add grain" is the -imperfect- medicine for this)
the inside-the-train-with-visible-exteriors shots in this music video were shot with Flaat_12 on a Canon DSLR, and I think the results are quite good (for something that costs 1/100 of the price of an Alexa):
https://vimeo.com/40353013
I tried the Flaat 12 style and did a did a Cinestyle vs Flaat_12 dynamic range test shooting the slightly off white wall just and lights in my bathroom reflecting off the wall just behind them and the Flaat 12 obliterated the highlight rolloff on the wall just behind the light bulbs. There was no rolloff to white clipping. Just absolutely brutal and abrupt harsh clipping with weird almost blocks of shades rather than a smooth transition of color and light. It was beyond terrible and unfixable. Cinestyle had nice smooth rolloff by comparison. How do you makeup for the brutally harsh white clipping? At least with Flaat 12. I don't know if Flaat 10 does the same.
No idea about Flaat12. I've never tried it. Flaat10p is awesome for highlight roll off if you expose for the highlights like these http://vimeo.com/42294944. Cinestyle works well there too, it just takes about 5 or 8 presets to be adjusted for each shot to bring the exposure back to what I like. Flaat10p and Flaat10n both only require a tiny bit of s-curve added to the RBG curves to bring it right how I like.
On a side note, if you expose to the left a stop or two with these really flat picture styles they blow up in post in my experience. I found I get much better results if I expose to the right a stop or two on the highlights.
Cheers,
Pete
On a side note, if you expose to the left a stop or two with these really flat picture styles they blow up in post in my experience. I found I get much better results if I expose to the right a stop or two on the highlights.
Cheers,
Pete
Samuel H
Major Contributor
That's weird... Was exposure the same on both? What settings where you using? (contrast, saturation, etc) I usually expose for the highlights, avoiding clipping, but I've found clipped highlights to be very nice anyway, e.g. in these clips: http://www.similaar.com/foto/flaat-picture-styles/real-world-tests-3.html - http://www.similaar.com/foto/flaat-picture-styles/real-world-tests-8.html
