How important are characters looks in film?

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ironpony

Carbonite Member
For just starting out at microbudgets casting an actor with a certain look can be tough to get. For example with my first couple of short films, I have a femme fatale, but the best actress to play her does not look anything like how one looks atypically in movies. She's more overweight, and completely average looking by comparison. I have an actor playing a hitman who does not look anything like your typical movie one, and is much more nerdy and harmless looking in comparison. I have actors who are younger than the usual age for their characters professions more of the time.

What do you think, can this hurt a film a lot, even though I'm choosing based on best performance talent?
 
ironpony said:
For just starting out at microbudgets casting an actor with a certain look can be tough to get. For example with my first couple of short films, I have a femme fatale, but the best actress to play her does not look anything like how one looks atypically in movies. She's more overweight, and completely average looking by comparison. I have an actor playing a hitman who does not look anything like your typical movie one, and is much more nerdy and harmless looking in comparison. I have actors who are younger than the usual age for their characters professions more of the time.

What do you think, can this hurt a film a lot, even though I'm choosing based on best performance talent?
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The broad general answer is, yes, it MIGHT hurt the film a lot. The thing is, it sounds like you are making a very specific genre film and every genre has accepted conventions, including the general physical type of the characters. Now, it is very possible to play against genre conventions and make a very good film, but it really takes some very good filmmaking to pull off. Almost every generation in the history of cinema has seen films that that challenge genre expectations and conventions, and by doing so, set the genre expectations and conventions of that generation.

What I would suggest is a creative exercise. Get your two actors and put together the look that you want for their characters in the film, with hair, make up and wardrobe. Take photos of them replicating scenes from the film. Then go back and look at the photos you have taken and compare them, side by side, with photos of similar characters from typical films of the genre you are making. Look long and hard at them and see what differences there are. Think about what socio-economic, psychological, generational, cultural, lifestyle, location of origin and other factors may be attributed to those differences. Then weave those factors into the fabric of your film. See if the settings, tone, dialogue, theme and plot of your film can be molded to match, explain or exploit the factors you found above. If the atypical looking characters are seamlessly a part of the film, that is, can an audience really see those people doing those things in those places with those outcomes, then it can work.

EDIT: Now this may mean a big re-write of you script. If you have a script about a world weary hit man trying to get away from years with the mob and who runs into a world weary femme fatale and it is set in a nice suburban neighborhood, and is starring some fresh early twenty somethings, then that is going to be very hard to believe.
 
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Well I am going by experiences by short films I already made, but not finished in post quite yet cause of some delays. I had to choose the best actors based on talent, and not looks. I tried to do the best I can, but looking through the footage... Well I suppose since many guys are easy theoretically it doesn't matter what a femme fatale looks like. And I suppose since hitmen are hard to find, it doesn't matter how nerdy or harmless they look, as long as they get the job done. Will audiences see that or at least the femme fatale reason?
 
ironpony said:
Well I am going by experiences by short films I already made, but not finished in post quite yet cause of some delays. I had to choose the best actors based on talent, and not looks. I tried to do the best I can, but looking through the footage... Well I suppose since many guys are easy theoretically it doesn't matter what a femme fatale looks like. And I suppose since hitmen are hard to find, it doesn't matter how nerdy or harmless they look, as long as they get the job done. Will audiences see that or at least the femme fatale reason?
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I didn't know that you were talking about a film that you had already shot. At this point, the only thing you can do, really, is edit the best you can and see what audience response you get about it. Not knowing the particulars of you film, as a general statement, I would believe that a hit man that is harmless looking might be more successful at getting up close and personal to do the business. As for the fem fatale, attraction and sexiness is very subjective, so you really can't know until you screen it for an objective audience.

Good luck.
 
Oh yeah, I wasn't asking for advice so much on the film I shot, so much as in films I wanna do in the future. Sorry for the confusion. I met since I have limitations of who to pick what do I do for next time? I was just using my those characters as examples, as I have similar ideas for characters in future films. I see a lot of no budget shorts on here, that are able to get actors to look their roles more, so where do they find people with such good presences? Or for the future I could use those tips.
 
Reach out beyond your own personal friends, like drama students, acting students, advertise online, place posters in public places, talk to a local casting agent and ask their advice. Find someone who can be your casting director. Unless your in a real small community Craigslist usually works.
 
Oh don't get me wrong I have done this by posting on Craiglists, and advertising at the University drama department. I live in a mediocre sized city. Perhaps I could find a casting agent and ask. I normally would not use friends.
 
When I look for people in my movie's (webcommercials, virals, commercials, corporate video) I always search for a very specific look. The look I disscussed with my client and/or writers/artdirectors. First I sent a message with features I would like to casting agancies/postboards and what-ever. I and ask for recent photo's of the actors. No photo no casting. Mostly I get like 50-200 reply's with photo and not even 25% is even close to the apperance I look for, and 10% is a total joke or laughter (I like this about casting, you get so many funny reply's).
After the apperance is right I'm going to find out about their CV's, rates and tallents.

I just can't believe you'r planning to work with actors you ain't totally sure of. No mather of the production cost. A waist of time, if I may say it rudely.
 
Film is totally superficial with regards to to type. Mis-casting will always lead to believability issues. But someone who looks right but can't act is no help either. I learned early on that you have to cast by type both in looks and personality when working with amateurs, you basically get people to play themselves, be prepared to change dialogue so it sounds like them.

Your short films should be for learning on, even if they totally suck, as long as you learn why they suck and try to correct on the next one, then the exercise is successful.

If your talent pool is limited, I would suggest find a group of people that you are comfortable working with, and then write a script to fit them, rather than making a script that you don't have the right talent for.
 
Well on my very tight budgets I can't afford to choose from like 200 actors. It's basically picking the best talented person who shows up the auditions. If I were to wait around for the most ideal looking actors, none would show up, and no films would get made. In the future perhaps if I have some success with my shorts, I can then get casting agents, and have more options.

Well, even though I may have made the wrong casting choices before unfortunately, I will know to cast for looks as well in the future. But for now since my pool is limited, till I figure out where to find more talent, I guess I can try to make them look their parts as best I can.

So since audiences are superficial about that sort of thing, what can I, or even us tight budget filmmakers do, to make them believe the characters even though they don't look the usual type?
 
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With no butged you will have to sell you'r project to potential crew/actors as you would sell it to client's. You will have to let them see it like an investment.
You have to reach the actor that want to get in the bussines and have the potential, but looking for the chance. It starts with being confident about the potential of you movie.
Where do you want you'r project to be when it's finished, how much is the chance it will be there? How good will it look on your portfolio, and on the portfolio of the actors.
Be realistic about it, but keep in mind that how better your crew/actors are how more chance you reach your goal, get the movie where you want it or get you where you want to be.

I had some no budget projects and find some actors with good performances in their folio. I was amazed myself they wanted to work for free. But if you think about it, they also have the same passion, have some free time they can scedual my project, and improve their skill, folio and experience. Just like me!

It is a lot of effort and time to make a good piece so do it as right as you possible can or you will regret it later.
 
Look is important but for example Jean Reno is better hitman than Timothy Olyphant, second one might look younger and attractive for women but Jean Reno's character is just perfect example how look can be deceiving and he is quite childish and shy but during action scenes he knows what to do.You just need to make use of his look and get right script for right person.I must admit that i dislike Olyphant as hitman very much.
Its good to deceive audience by the look and surprise them cause pictures tell more than thousand words, if people will see that he means business then he means business no matter how he looks like.Liam Neeson , i would have doubts to cast him as lead in Taken but after seeing the movie... hes just perfect.
I think you start getting confused if you want to hit "Attractive for women/men" category with your actor.Dont do that.
 
This is interesting cause I would have to say the opposite. Reno is a lot tougher looking than the boyish looking Olyphant, so shouldn't audiences believe Reno more?
 
ironpony said:
Well on my very tight budgets I can't afford to choose from like 200 actors. It's basically picking the best talented person who shows up the auditions. If I were to wait around for the most ideal looking actors, none would show up, and no films would get made. In the future perhaps if I have some success with my shorts, I can then get casting agents, and have more options.

Well, even though I may have made the wrong casting choices before unfortunately, I will know to cast for looks as well in the future. But for now since my pool is limited, till I figure out where to find more talent, I guess I can try to make them look their parts as best I can.

So since audiences are superficial about that sort of thing, what can I, or even us tight budget filmmakers do, to make them believe the characters even though they don't look the usual type?
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You have hit upon the great conundrum of "No budget" filmmaking. The secret of very low budget filmmaking is to use the resources that you have available to you to make an engaging entertaining film. If you are writing films that require Brad Pitt type characters (For example) and all you are able to have access to are very much less than Brad Pitt type actors, then trying to make the original film, requiring Brad Pitt types, with the very much less than Brad Pitt type actors, is a waste of time, IMHO. You need to realize that the only thing that a low budget filmmaker has absolute control over is the script. You need to decide if you want to make a successful film with the resources you have, or you want to try and make a film that is outside of the resources you have available that will probably be less than successful. Take stock of the acting talent you have available, at your "No budget" level, write a script where those talent resources would be appropriate, and make an engaging and entertaining film. Use that film as a show case for your next films, and build upon that, getting better and better resources, including better and better acting talent and types. I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but if you want to make usual type movies with usual type actors then you are going to need the usual type of money those films cost to make. If you have no money and have access to unusual types of actors then you will need to make an unusual type of movie the best you can.
 
Okay sure, I will guess I have to do that. My first feature I want to make though is pretty much where I got the idea for the femme fatale short. I just changed a lot of it around to make it shorter. However I still would like to do the feature, as it is my best script. Maybe she doesn't have to be an attractive good looking femme fatale, but it is necessary for the plot, for her to use sex a weapon to succeed in her scheme. Can I make a character like that, that does not have be goodlooking?
 
ironpony said:
This is interesting cause I would have to say the opposite. Reno is a lot tougher looking than the boyish looking Olyphant, so shouldn't audiences believe Reno more?
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*I dont know how do you see it but IMO script and first action scene with fat guy made Reno tougher, by the look Reno looked like grown up child from poor family or something, his way of talking and walking was intentionally made like he wasnt really too bright guy .
*With Olyphant it was just all wrong, he was like pretty poster boy, he was also too young.Also retarded scene where he(super skilled assassin) was supposed to kill the girl by taking out his gun in very busy street afternoon was just tragic and that did the movie and character for me.
 
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I wouldn't say Olyphant, was too young, I mean in that movie his character was brainwashed to being a hitman, since childhood. It's not that hitmen HAVE to be a certain older age for it to be believable, especially if they are rookie hitmen. There are a lot of hired criminals who are teenagers in real life, so if it's realistic, then why is it so hard to be believed for some movie-goers?
 
Honestly, the rules of low budget filmmaking is to make sure that your film doesn't look cheesy. These means no cheesy special effects, no cheesy characters, no cheesy actors that don't fit the role, no cheesy grading, ect ect. No matter which department of the film you're trying to control, always think about your budget, and think about realism. You're not going to make a good "gangsta action noir" film for around $500, and you're not going to make one for around $5,000, maybe not even $50,000. These types of films take extreme budgets and require perfectionism, as it is essential fantasy in genre and needs to be believable. Instead, focus your efforts on films that look natural, feel natural, and focus on mundane, natural days. Teenage romances, elderly couples, coffee shops, parks, forests, ect ect. Base things on real life and the real life limited to your budget will seem realistic. If you have an action-noir-gangsta film that you're dying to make, it may have to wait until the days you have the budget - and realistic works will get you a producer and will get you clients before cheesy ones will.
 
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