How fast is REDCINE?

I wouldn't make predictions based upon analysis of what the chips in camera can do compared to chips in computers can do. You're looking at very different architectures, algorithms etc.

You can play back 4k RAW at a lower than 4k rez. Lower than rez enough and it should be RT on a decent system. As for what constitutes a decent system and what the lower rez shall be, are still being worked on. There's not necessarily a conversion process to use 4k - it's just an option. Say you're 4k stuff needs to be in DPX - then you need to convert. Say you can use the REDCODE, you don't need to convert.

Hope that helps. Remember, we're in development, and still working out a lot of details, and that heavy optimisation always comes at the end of the development process, not the beginning.

Graeme
 
I sometimes wonder when the NLE coders will start to use GPU to render stuff like color corrections etc...it's taking 64 hours to render premiere pro curves into the cineform proejct for our feature film...argg....on a dual opteron
 
Graeme... should we be worried about final color correction being rendered using the GPU? I just want to make sure we won't see any OpenGL driver glitches, that might create inconsistancies from what we see on one computer from another.
 
Hi Graeme

How come the camera can't record 2k RAW when using a 35mm lens?

From the spec it can do 2K RGB but not RAW so we'll need to have a 16mm lens to shoot 2k RAW.

Do you think its a future firmware upgrade to get it shooting 2K RAW at 120 fps just like it does using a 16mm lens?

Kind regards
Rory
 
You CAN do 2k RAW with a 35mm lens, but you're only using the centre of the sensor, so your 50mm prime will appears to have the focal length of a 100mm lens, making your lens choice tricky for wide angle shots. 16mm lenses are wider, so you have easier, and hopefully cheaper lens choices.

Graeme
 
Graeme

Will REDCINE let you view the image on an external monitor (say an HD-SDI monitor connected to a Kona 3) as you adjust the settings?

If so, will it have the option to apply a viewer LUT (not baked into the conversion) for this output, similar to Truelight in Shake, so you can preview eg on a rec709 callibrated monitor what a film-out might look like?

Nick
 
Greame, can the camera demosaic internally in realtime onboard? If so, is there a possibility of a "RedReal" PCI card for the computer which would allow realtime dedicated hardware demosaicing? Id like to see if the Red range could grow to incorporate add-on soloutions for the computer (similar to a gpu).
 
It seems like it would be more cost effective to release a DirectX10 demosaicing application to utilize the multiple pixel pipelines of DX10 cards. They already have general purpose number crunchers ready and willing, no reason to develop a new card.
 
Yes, camera demosaics internally. There's no way it could work without it :-). We'll certainly look at GPU demosaic, but they key is to balance CPU and GPU load, remembering we're using the GPU and CPU for processing. No point over-loading one, so the other has less to do and causing an imbalance, or that doesn't optimize what we're doing.

Graeme
 
Great thread, thanks Grame and Rob, and everyone else. Sounds like the conversion will be pretty fast. So you're actually working on a G5 but Redcine will not be available for Power PC machines ?! Just teasing, I read the thread about this, I understand you you're not in the optimization stage yet. I wouldn't be surprised if the current version will be deadly slow compared to the shiping version. By the time I get my Red One it will be definitly time to upgrade my G5 to something more powerfull anyhow. Thanks again for your input, the way comments are going back and forth keeps amazing me.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Hi Graeme

I've read you say REDCine is taking around 1.7 sec per frame at the moment.

Is that processing 4k to 4k?
How quick can it do 4k to 1080p?

On quick turn around jobs I see a problem if it takes ages to process the footage.

Or is it that if you shoot REDCode footage there is not processing needed if you can edit in RedCode, so all you'll need to do is transfer the files over to your editing drives?

I'm working with a HVX at the moment and the transfer times for getting files over to your edit drives is a killer. Shooting on the Firestore FS100 takes about an hour to copy over an hours worth of 720 footage - it is going over Firewire400 and is a 5400rpm drive so thats got to slow it down.

Regards
Rory
 
Rory - that's 4.9k RAW to 4.9K demosaiced RGB, in basically R&D software, unoptimized. The real REDCINE you'll get with the camera works differently and will behave differently.

Do you really think there will be quick turnaround 4k jobs? I'd hazzard a guess that it will still be quicker than processing 35mm film.

At the HD level, shoot direct to HD and no processing needed. Or rapidly extract a 2k or 1k downconvert from the 4k, again, very quick indeed.

Copying times will be as fast as the drive allows for. If you're shooting 4k RAW and maxing out the drive, sure, it will take as long as it took to record to dump off, but think about it, it's 4K RAW on a hard drive - an hour for that wouldn't feel as bad as an hour for 720p would it?

Graeme
 
As long as I can monitor at 1080P out of the HDMI tap on set, with LUT applied I will be very happy. In terms of the high res (4k RGB) version I am thinking about a workflow where I only process the circle takes as one lights until the final conform. I am hoping that I can accomplish this overnight (8 hours) assuming that the TRT of the selects is under 40 minutes and that both the software and hardware running REDCINE by the end of Q2 2007 take decent advantage of multicore processing.

Blair S. Paulsen
RedOne #19
 
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