How exactly do you record directly to a harddrive?

J

jmfox

Active member
Many posts are premised on P2 as necessary for portability, but few explain the process of recording directly to an external hard disk. I mean in real-time fashion, that is "simultaneously" to external media, in lieu of P2, while recording in a studio. No doubt, some buffering will be necessary, but can this be done via firewire, usb and what hardware is necessary?

jmf
 
Not sure what the question is. I mean, if you want to use it in a studio environment, you can just run a firewire cable straight to your desktop or laptop. As long as it's running a DVCPRO-HD capture application (such as the forthcoming HD Rack, or today's FCP-HD or Avid Express HD) you just capture HD right then and there. They work today for capturing from a firewire DVCPRO-HD deck, and will work immediately for capturing directly from the camera.

If you want portability, you'll need an "intelligent" hard disk capture device, such as a forthcoming DVCPRO-HD-aware FireStore. Just plug in the cable and capture.
 
I guess the firewire at 400mbps should handle the 100 mbps data stream from the HVX200. But what about codec's? The P2 is expensive as a storage device, so I'm thinking there is some intellengence in the P2 that would be missing in a firewire feed; or is the firewire feed on the backside of the P2?

jmf
 
On their forums, they said that they were very interested in developing it, and they're already talking to Panasonic. So "definite" is a strong word, but they want to develop it, so it seems like it's on its way.
 
One down side to recording straight off of the firewire tap is that your timecode and metadata will most likely be lost. In the case of Final Cut 4.5 / HD, it requires a time code feed (camera in VTR mode) to begin a controlled digitize. The only way I could get the footage out of the SPX-800 P2 camera was to do an uncontrolled digitize which grabs unreferenced time code and the metadata isn't part of the DV stream. Or switch the camera to "Thumbnail" mode (essentially VTR Mode) and digitize as if the camera were a deck. It was rather ammusing watching FCP cue up the p2 card and preroll a chip!

When doing a traditional capture with the camera in VTR Mode all time code is retained. None of this is specific to P2, it's all the same as transfering from a DVX100 via firewire. Once the Mac drivers for P2 are available, there will be little need for this part of the workflow IMHO.

I have DV rack but haven't tried using its DVR capability yet so I'm not sure how they are addressing the TC issue when recording directly from the firewire port. Does it currently match the camera's TC as recorded to tape?

David C. Smith
LA / OC D.P.
www.filmstox.com
 
something i dont fully understand, the D4 output (analog?!).. what is it exactly and what's the workflow for capturing it in optimal situation, like studio.
 
Unluckily it does it only when it is recorded to tape. Apparently when no tape is being recorded, most cams fail to generate timecode, so the firewaire stream recorded by DVRack (which DVRack does not modify) contaions no cam generated timecode. The real question is: does this cam generate and send timecode when P2 is the medium it sees as primary recording medium? It would seem to be obvious the answer is yes. We will see.
 
If the 800 is any indication, the firewire interface doesn't see any difference between P2 and tape. Final Cut actually cues P2 as if it were linear, rewinding, prerolling and cueing when digitizing over firewire. If we are thinking about recording to HD as an alternative to P2 then that's a different story.

The HD (Firestore or otherwise) will need to recognise a start and stop command from the camera so the HVX will need the ability to "Record" even when no native media is being used (P2 or DV drive). My guess is that for such a system to work, it will not be through the firewire interface but as a PCMCIA interface card that will control the HD. The camera thinks it is recording to P2.

I'm not terribly concerned with this since I think recording directly to hard drive without rollng P2 isn't wise. To feel covered, I am transferring to 2 hard drives and confirming a good transfer before wiping the P2 cards. I can't stand the idea that the footage only exists on a single HD with no backup. So the ability to roll the HD without rolling P2 isn't an issue, but it wold be nice to know it was possible.
 
also, before we start building our firewire-based studios, isn't there a pretty severe limit on the physical length that a firewire run can be and still work? like 15 ft, right? i mean, i assume that "repeater" type things exist, but that seems like a potential bottleneck, as well as a potential challenge for the whole bi-directional thing.
 
How about "Free-Run" time code? doesn't the HVX have that? just switch it on and that will give you a running TC out, regardless of camera's REC status.

- Mikko
 
Man, how long do you guys think the Firewire jack will hold if recording to HD is adopted in a daily workflow? I don't think that flimsy little thing will last more than a short film shoot. I mean, every camera I used to capture and edit footage had FW problems much sooner than head mechanism issues...
 
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