FS7: How do you polish s-log3 in Resolve?

Dof is connected to fs top and sensor size and fov - so if you stop down on a larger sensor you get the look of a smaller sensor at a wider f stop

so yes the fs7 can look like a 2/3 camera

Of course a 2/3 lens wide open may of course have different charatistics to an S35 lens closed down and the noise characteristics of the different chips will make the images unlikely to be an exact match
 
i get that but just because something has a deeper DOF doesn't make it look like a videoy 2/3 camera. I would guess most hollywood films are shot at 5.6. You don't see much super shallow dof and it still looks great.
 
Martin.G said:
Could you elaborate on this?

What effect does sharpening (and other effects you would use) have on the end result on Vimeotube?
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i cannot really eleborate. The best settings is a hugely complex subject beyond my kmowlege base - but sharpening is in that toolbox
 
A quick google led me to reduser:

When I encode files for low bitrate streaming services like Youtube and Vimeo, I like to pre-process the video before handing it to them. Kind of like audio mastering before you go to the CD, there are things you want to do with your original file to make sure the video sharing services maintain the correct details.

The problem is that the base file you upload has a lot of small details that get destroyed, because YouTube and Vimeo need to throw away something to make it all fit into 4,500 kbps.

You as an artist can actually control what gets thrown away in the image before you send it to the compressor to maintain higher fidelity than had you just uploaded the file without pre-processing. Here is what I like to do:
  • denoise cB and cR channels. (Your eyes don't see detail here well, and it gets knocked down to 1/4th the size of the Y component)
  • use a scaler appropropriate for the sharpness level you want. I like using the spline36 method as it's sharp, without unatural haloing.
  • If the shots came from a high noise camera, or high ISO shot, reduce Noise in the Y channel for that shot, on a shot per shot basis.
  • Add static dithering patterns to gradients as the noise in the cB and cR channels was preventing dithering at 8-bpc 4:2:0
  • Encode to the final resolution, color space, and bit depth of the sharing service's delivery. Youtube is 3840x2160 8-bpc 4:2:0. You want to control how these conversions look, not YouTube
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http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ng-Search-for-Best-Vimeo-Compression-Settings

Some good tips there!
 
Beyond me mate :)

On a commercial level I hand off a ProRes422 file to clients with the advice that the file will need to be appropriately recompressed by 'your web delivery team'. This business workflow is well established in print publishing were I would deliver an image file in Adobe1998_RGB in the full knowledge that a CMYK conversion must be made.. by 'your print delivery team'. In print bad conversions lead to poor print colour which leads to print runs being pulped and people sue-ing each other.. so staying out is the professionally correct practice. For broadcast I would also expect my work to be QCd by a third party before going to air.

S
 
Martin.G said:
A quick google led me to reduser:



http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ng-Search-for-Best-Vimeo-Compression-Settings

Some good tips there!
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Seems like an awful lot of bother to go to.

I've been testing UHD delivery on Youtube for a client who wants to see if it's worth doing 4K and I've been quite surprised by how good YT 4K actually is and contrary to that RU post did not destroy the fine detail. I did not denoise or sharpen my whatsits before uploading. In fact it was a straight export from FCPX into the client's YT Channel so not even a fancy encode.
 
david dominguez said:
i get that but just because something has a deeper DOF doesn't make it look like a videoy 2/3 camera.
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But shallow DoF and being able to isolate the subject from the background and foreground with focus is one of the factors that often goes into a cinematic look. It also helps the camera compress the image better. I see that all the time on my HFR wildlife footage and other subjects like the airshow. If there is a lot of vegetation or other detail in the background behind the flying bird, plane, or whatever, that is too much in focus the compression falls apart and the final image looks like crap. Try it yourself and see.

RAW compression on my F55 looks a lot bette than XAVC on my FS7, and that is what I normally use for wildlife, but I still want shallow DoF to isolate the subject from the cluttter.

BTW, I'm not necessarily against 2/3" cameras. My dream camera is a 2/3" 3-sensor 4K camera with XAVC-I, RAW, S-LOG, and HFR that records to SxS. When Sony gets around to releasing a camcorder version of their HDC-4300 I will probably make the jump. I really miss my old F800 and broadcast zoom lenses for wildlife but I need to have 4K and HFR these days.
 
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Compression for delivery over streaming is a set of moving goalposts. It's a nightmare and the only way to really get the right result is test and tweak.

I can see those tips having such a tiny impact and pretty much all of them totally stomped over by a particular services compression.

There was a time with vimeo where they would accept ProRes files, and it was advantageous to have noise, because it made the compressor work harder. But i believe this has changed now.

I wouldn't advise pre targeted a special version of your file, like a 4:2:0 because none of these services will stream with the file you give them, they will all recompressed.

I've usually found the best quality you are allowed to upload is the best.

The biggest caveat is not resolution it's getting your colorspaces correct. Some nvidia cards for example affect the image you're viewing on screen and then when uploading you loose that (legal vs data on the card). Or if you're monitoring 709 these services are usually sRGB based, so some tweaks to the tone curve would be needed.

These services are a right pain and a necessary evil. Even if you upload something really nice, you don't know that your audience and clients aren't seeing some massively compression version because of bandwidth issues their end...

ugh...

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
The biggest caveat is not resolution it's getting your colorspaces correct. Some nvidia cards for example affect the image you're viewing on screen and then when uploading you loose that (legal vs data on the card). Or if you're monitoring 709 these services are usually sRGB based, so some tweaks to the tone curve would be needed.
Click to expand...

How is this mitigated by f.eks. using a i1display pro to meter and correct the color profile?
 
paulcurtis said:
I've usually found the best quality you are allowed to upload is the best.

The biggest caveat is not resolution it's getting your colorspaces correct. Some nvidia cards for example affect the image you're viewing on screen and then when uploading you loose that (legal vs data on the card). Or if you're monitoring 709 these services are usually sRGB based, so some tweaks to the tone curve would be needed.
Click to expand...

I don't waste much time beyond sticking precisely to suggested data rates. If memory serves me correctly the last time I want above the suggested data rate the re-compression was actually worse. Subtle hint, don't send us more data than we need or else!!!

The 709/sRGB is a good point. I have a tweak preset at the end of the chain before O/P but in all honesty the sad state of corporate projectors, TVs, computers screens and Home TVs that very few would notice anyway. If it looks good on an iPad it's alright!
 
Martin.G said:
How is this mitigated by f.eks. using a i1display pro to meter and correct the color profile?
Click to expand...

Just be aware of what you're monitoring as vs what the services need. I'm calibrated for Rec709 so whenever i need to post something, still or video then i have to remember to add a little step at the end to convert to sRGB (in photoshop, or whatever video based app)

If you are viewing in sRGB then hopefully(!) what you see is what you get.

But there were a few gamma bugs in quicktime that could change things (certain formats might look different).

The key is to upload, test on some devices that would be typical and judge for yourself that all is well!

Nirv said:
I don't waste much time beyond sticking precisely to suggested data rates. If memory serves me correctly the last time I want above the suggested data rate the re-compression was actually worse. Subtle hint, don't send us more data than we need or else!!!

The 709/sRGB is a good point. I have a tweak preset at the end of the chain before O/P but in all honesty the sad state of corporate projectors, TVs, computers screens and Home TVs that very few would notice anyway. If it looks good on an iPad it's alright!
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IMHO an iPad is actually a pretty cool way to preview. The new iPad Pro would be even more interesting as it's supposed to be full DCP gamut, that could be useful for projection previewing.

I tend to just sanity check, looking on laptop, other PCs and even TV

But once you open that can of worms, you realise how different everything actually is. The only saving grace is that an awful lot of tv programming and even netflix looks different even episode to episode.

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
IMHO an iPad is actually a pretty cool way to preview. The new iPad Pro would be even more interesting as it's supposed to be full DCP gamut, that could be useful for projection previewing.
Click to expand...

I've actually signed off work on my iPad. "Well it looks OK in my studio and on this iPad so I think we can safely say you need a new projector...sign here..."

The new mini iPad Pro is a definite purchase.
 
the iPad since retina version were already very very close to REC709. Great tool with duet app for preview on location
 
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Martin.G said:
Thanks for showing us Doug. Looks great! What would be the ace up the sleeve in Resolve to further make these images "pop" so to speak?
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Martin, I've graded the airshow footage this morning if you care to see what I consider the final look. Not perfect by any means, but good enough to donate to the museum.

S-LOG3 graded in Resolve with ACES and no LUTs.
https://vimeo.com/159890575
 
Cheers Doug! Edit: It hangs after 5 seconds. An hour later, it hangs after 17 seconds. Not sure if Vimeo is still working on it? Those first 17 seconds was sharp though. Especially the 4K shot of the bomber. I need to shoot more 4K i think.



Oh and my iPad Air 2 varies so much in contrast every few seconds while it plays video, that i refuse to play anything for clients on it. Cant believe Apple QC. I havent found much on google. If anyone knows the magic trick to turn this glorified gameboy into something i can actually use, i would highly appreciate it! :-) https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7257008?start=0&tstart=0
 
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