C100: How are you guys handing off your c100 footage?

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sonofaresiii

Well-known member
Just picked up a c100 the other day, it's a damn beautiful camera but the post workflow is giving me a headache. I know Canon wants me to use its software to pull footage from the sd card to my computer, but 99% of my work is me handing off the footage to an editor (or more likely, a producer who then gets it to an editor later)... and they're not gonna have Canon's software ready to go for me to dump footage.

Without it, it seems like a bit of a nightmare... no simple way to just get the footage to a usable state as is. It seems like many NLE's require rewrapping and/or transcoding... which isn't such a big deal as that's what I was doing with any of my previous cameras, but it seems like it's a lot more hassle and expensive to get it done with the avchd wrapper. And not even all avchd rewrapping programs recognize it!

So how are you guys handling it? Explaining in-depth what the editor/producer will need to dump and load (including potentially having to buy programs) before hand and making sure that's all ready to go when you dump, or just handing off the avchd file and letting the editor figure out the workflow he likes best?

I'm not crazy about either of those solutions for various reasons (for the former, it may scare them off and it means I can't just bust out the camera when I think it'll be most necessary, I'll have to have an in-depth conversation about what I'm doing and how to handle it with people who don't understand anything I'm saying... and for the latter, I want to make sure the editor isn't wrecking my footage with a bad workflow!)

I gotta be honest, having it all wrapped up in the bizarre avchd wrapper makes me a little uncomfortable, I suspect it's just something I'll have to get used to.

(btw, my personal route so far is to rewrap with ClipWrap when pulling from the sd card, but that's a bit expensive for low-budget stuff if they're not expecting it, and I've also heard that there are some issues with dropping frames that causes re-linking longer shots issues, I'm still testing that out but I figure most of the time it won't be a problem. I also tried out Free AVCHD Converter in the app store, but i noticed a bit of quality loss with it so I'll only keep it for when I need a free program to handle it)
 
sonofaresiii said:
...I know Canon wants me to use its software to pull footage from the sd card to my computer, but 99% of my work is me handing off the footage to an editor (or more likely, a producer who then gets it to an editor later)... and they're not gonna have Canon's software ready to go for me to dump footage.

Without it, it seems like a bit of a nightmare... no simple way to just get the footage to a usable state as is. It seems like many NLE's require rewrapping and/or transcoding... which isn't such a big deal as that's what I was doing with any of my previous cameras, but it seems like it's a lot more hassle and expensive to get it done with the avchd wrapper. And not even all avchd rewrapping programs recognize it!

So how are you guys handling it?....
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If you need this then there is C300 with XF codec 50Mbps long GOP, it is the safe way for your type of work. The C100 is a low level camera with the AVCHD recording. I'm working in Avid Symhony. I import the clips as XDCAM 35Mbps and send bin and media, with long clips I need to connect several parts together before importing (I don't use avid AMA for import). The right tool for the right job.
 
Well, actually .mts is just a container, so re-wrapping means basically changing .mts to .mov or .mp4. A lot of NLEs natively support AVCHD, so that's not problem in most cases, but if your editor is still on FCP7, then you have to do some additional work. I re-wrap just to be able to color in Davinci Resolve(yeah, it's 2014 and it still can't read AVCHD files) via ffmpeg and a custom script. But that's Windows. It's available for Mac, so I'd suggest exploring it. It's free and very fast.
 
I don't understand why you need to do anything other than give them a clone of the SD Card in its native format and let them do whatever that want with it. It's really not a big deal to edit the AVCHD codec with a modern NLE like Premiere Pro CS6 or FCPx.

They don't need Canon software.
 
Pave1 said:
If you need this then there is C300 with XF codec 50Mbps long GOP, it is the safe way for your type of work. The C100 is a low level camera with the AVCHD recording. I'm working in Avid Symhony. I import the clips as XDCAM 35Mbps and send bin and media, with long clips I need to connect several parts together before importing (I don't use avid AMA for import). The right tool for the right job.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was asking how you hand off footage for the c100, not the c300. I didn't say I do or don't need anything, just asking how most of you are doing it. Everyone seems to have a different preferred method.

AndrewTaran said:
Well, actually .mts is just a container, so re-wrapping means basically changing .mts to .mov or .mp4. A lot of NLEs natively support AVCHD, so that's not problem in most cases, but if your editor is still on FCP7, then you have to do some additional work. I re-wrap just to be able to color in Davinci Resolve(yeah, it's 2014 and it still can't read AVCHD files) via ffmpeg and a custom script. But that's Windows. It's available for Mac, so I'd suggest exploring it. It's free and very fast.
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Thanks for the info. Like I said, I just picked this camera up so I haven't had a ton of first-hand experience with it, just a lot of research I've done and I see a lot of people indicating many NLE's that can't (or have trouble) editing with the native files, but if that's rarely the case then that's good to know.

Erik Naso said:
I don't understand why you need to do anything other than give them a clone of the SD Card in its native format and let them do whatever that want with it. It's really not a big deal to edit the AVCHD codec with a modern NLE like Premiere Pro CS6 or FCPx.
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I was just asking what others often did, I've heard a ton of different potential workflows but haven't heard a consensus from most people actually working in the field. If that's your preferred method and haven't had any concerns with doing it, that's great and I really appreciate the info. It looks like many people have many different methods.
 
I think letting the editor/producer decided how they want to edit it is a better option than trying to transcode or deliver in a different codec unless you are charging for transcoding then do whatever they want. As an editor I would rather have the naitive card.
 
I resisted using the canon software for the C100 files for a long time, but now I'm a convert. I use it every single time I transfer footage.

The software will only transfer the video files, so you don't have the complex web of folders the SD card contains. It will also seamlessly stitch together long takes into one file.

You then have the added benefit of being able to rename the files to whatever you want without breaking the AVCHD file structure. I shoot so many projects that it's a nightmare to have dozens or hundreds of files all called "0003.mts." I've already had a situation where we were unable to reopen a slightly older project because the editor didn't keep the files in separate subfolders, so we had no idea which C100 files were needed as they all have the same filenames.

Seriously, I highly recommend trying it out. By the way, this is on Windows. Is there a Mac version too?
 
sonofaresiii said:
....but 99% of my work is me handing off the footage to an editor (or more likely, a producer who then gets it to an editor later)... and they're not gonna have Canon's software ready to go for me to dump footage....
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If you need this sort of work then the C100 may not to be the right tool for you, that is all.

I have the problem with the compatibility of the C100 native avchd clips and Avid Symphony 6.5 (some chroma subsampling problem with red colors).
If the avchd from the C100 (or Canon G10 - it is not only canon avchd from the C100) works well then the best way is to work with the copy of the native clips in the native structure from the SDHC card, but it is not my the Avid Composer case.

So make some the quality test with your editors and their workflows, you don't need to use the canon rewrap utility, you can use the native avchd clips in a native card structure.
 
Pave1 said:
If you need this sort of work then the C100 may not to be the right tool for you, that is all.

I have the problem with the compatibility of the C100 native avchd clips and Avid Symphony 6.5 (some chroma subsampling problem with red colors).
If the avchd from the C100 (or Canon G10 - it is not only canon avchd from the C100) works well then the best way is to work with the copy of the native clips in the native structure from the SDHC card, but it is not my the Avid Composer case.

So make some the quality test with your editors and their workflows, you don't need to use the canon rewrap utility, you can use the native avchd clips in a native card structure.
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I totally get what you're saying, but it feels a little like me asking how to spruce up my backyard for a nice sitting area and you telling me to go buy a new house with a porch. A better wrapper/codec would be a nice feature to have, but it's not important enough to me to justify the cost of a new camera.

But I totally appreciate your input and feedback.

drummondb said:
I resisted using the canon software for the C100 files for a long time, but now I'm a convert. I use it every single time I transfer footage.

The software will only transfer the video files, so you don't have the complex web of folders the SD card contains. It will also seamlessly stitch together long takes into one file.

You then have the added benefit of being able to rename the files to whatever you want without breaking the AVCHD file structure. I shoot so many projects that it's a nightmare to have dozens or hundreds of files all called "0003.mts." I've already had a situation where we were unable to reopen a slightly older project because the editor didn't keep the files in separate subfolders, so we had no idea which C100 files were needed as they all have the same filenames.

Seriously, I highly recommend trying it out. By the way, this is on Windows. Is there a Mac version too?
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Ahh very interesting, thanks for the input. Do you usually pull the footage yourself from a personal computer and then hand off the files? Or do you carry something around with you to offload onsite?

Erik Naso said:
I think letting the editor/producer decided how they want to edit it is a better option than trying to transcode or deliver in a different codec unless you are charging for transcoding then do whatever they want. As an editor I would rather have the naitive card.
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Right on, thanks for the input.
 
sonofaresiii said:
I totally get what you're saying, but it feels a little like me asking how to spruce up my backyard for a nice sitting area and you telling me to go buy a new house with a porch. A better wrapper/codec would be a nice feature to have, but it's not important enough to me to justify the cost of a new camera.

But I totally appreciate your input and feedback.
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If there is no compactibility problem with their editing sw then everything is ok, copy your cards to HDD.
But if there is some problem then you need to transcode files or you need to record to an external recorder. In this case it may be a difficult to work with the C100, the codec from the C300 is much better in this case because has no problem with usual editing sw.

It is good to know these limits, avchd is not the best codec for this sort of work. C100 is the low class camera with some limits (8bit, 420, avchd with some compactibility issue).
 
I shoot freelance for a production company who edit off a raid 5 windows server using iMacs with FCPx and they can't import the C100 AVCHD in to FCPx. They have to copy the AVCHD file structure including Private folder back on to an SD card and then import it locally. I've had to start using Clipwrap to re-wrap the files to standard mov files before giving the footage to them. So those saying just hand the cards over aren't covering all the bases.

Tbh for my own projects I've started re-wrapping the footage before editing it myself to avoid duplicating files in FCPx.
 
Usually I use the canon import utility software to extract the mts files from that private folder on the SD card. And also to make sure that long takes get stitched together into one single file.

In camera I have the file naming setup that the mts files are named after the full date and real time code. You have the year, month, date, hour, minutes and seconds. For example, you'll end up with a file name 20140418102359.

It is a very long name, but this way you avoid having the same mts file names like 003.mts for multiple days, scenes, takes, whatever. And no editor will ever get that those mixed up. And there will be no issues off reconnecting media.

For clients, I usually send the mts files through clipwrap to rewrap them into prores files. Believe me I had editors in the past, where I only had giving them a copy of the SD card, and they didn't know what to do with it. So just handing over a copy of the SD card is not enough. I ask them what they edit with and based on that I delivere the files.
 
davidreimers said:
Usually I use the canon import utility software to extract the mts files from that private folder on the SD card. And also to make sure that long takes get stitched together into one single file.

In camera I have the file naming setup that the mts files are named after the full date and real time code. You have the year, month, date, hour, minutes and seconds. For example, you'll end up with a file name 20140418102359.

It is a very long name, but this way you avoid having the same mts file names like 003.mts for multiple days, scenes, takes, whatever. And no editor will ever get that those mixed up. And there will be no issues off reconnecting media.

For clients, I usually send the mts files through clipwrap to rewrap them into prores files. Believe me I had editors in the past, where I only had giving them a copy of the SD card, and they didn't know what to do with it. So just handing over a copy of the SD card is not enough. I ask them what they edit with and based on that I delivere the files.
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I'm curious now. I want to check out this import utility. I checked the Canon website for the import utility software and I dont see it. It must be on the disk only that comes with the camera? Have to dig up the box.
 
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Erik Naso said:
I'm curious now. I want to check out this import utility. I checked the Canon website for the import utility software and I dont see it. It must be on the disk only that comes with the camera? Have to dig up the box.
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It is on the disk but I betcha anything there's a workaround. I remember you "couldn't " download the eos utility software without the cd, except with a little finagling you could
 
Yes, it comes with the camera. And to add to what davidreimers says, I don't believe he configured the file naming that way. That's just how the import utility names the files (date, time, etc). However, as I said above, you're then free to rename the files any way you like without breaking the file structure, losing timecode, whatever.

As far as I can tell, at least on a PC, there is no reason to copy the whole SD card to your hard drive. The import utility is your friend.
 
Thanks. I'll check it out. The renaming thing is actually helpful. I did have issues with bigger projects that caused relinking issues in the past with several SD cards. The naming thing is lame with AVCHD.
 
a bit off topic, but has anyone actually gotten to the supposed metadata in those folders? I'm talking the juicy stuff, not frame size/etc...
 
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