Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

skettalee

skettalee

Well-known member
I need some people that are in love with Vegas to tell me how you can say its good.

The worst thing about Vegas is it looks like an updated Windows Movie Maker. Yes I do see that it does have alot of options in it and stuff. But other than small cheap not worthy tasks, I would never want to use that to do major editing. I hate the way you edit on it. It only has 1 monitor so you have to use that dumb trimmer feature that sucks.

What im really trying to say is I want to hear the stories of what makes it so good. I use Avid Xpress Pro 4.3 right now for my main editing. Just got Vegas Video 5.0 and nothing cool about it to me. Avid is way better.

I want someone to buy me into Vegas. I might just be missing something or whatever. So someone please clue me in!
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

On Vegas. No, the interface isn't that pretty. And it feels a lot different than Avid.

But it rocks. I doubt you gave it very much time. I'm not saying you're going to love it more than Avid, because Vegas isn't for everyone, but you should certainly withhold judgement until you've actually spent a bit more time cutting with it or until you've watched some people who know what they're doing cut with it.

I wasn't at NAB, but I talked to some experienced editors at NAB who watched Vegas demos and they were simply blown away. The people running the demos were much better at Vegas than I am, but they would show you Vegas working in a way that would blow you away, too. You're trying to figure a lot of stuff out by yourself, and figuring stuff out isn't going to blow you away. It's going to be a little tedius since you're used to Avid.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

What does Avid have for you that Vegas does not? I ask in that I am not familar with Avid. So let's start there. List all of the things that Avid has that your not seeing in Vegas.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

I use Vegas and DVDa together. All my projects are DVDs
I find Vegas comfortable because it dosn't dictate the processes I should take do things. It likes expermentation---thats just how I work. I like simple stuff. Ideas are hard enough to come by - I just want to edit. I know this post is vague, 24p is a no brainer, just about every feature is one click away and I learned very fast JUST GIVE IT A REAL TRY.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

Who says you cant use 2 monitors with Vegas? What small and meaningless tasks? Skettalee, WTF are you even talking about? Have you even used the program?
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

Hold on. Im sorry that im sounding all mean. Im just really trying to learn the reasons why everyone likes it. I know tons about it. I've used 4 for tons of projects and have already used 5 for some projects. But all the stuff I choose to use it for is the quick run in and run out stuff that I dont care much about. When im editing. I like to see the A & B editing which is the Source/Record windows. I dont see that at all. And I like my timeline being underneath the monitor window(s). It just sucks to have that timeline at the top and having to look down everytime I want to check it out. I been using it for a good while and yet to find options to change that. Vegas has crashed for me much more than Avid has ever even thought about crashing. And I just get turned away by the simple look of things. As I said it just looks like an updated editing style from Windows Movie Maker. But I know, alot of you guys like it alot. I dont want to sound mean but its hard.

Another thing. When I import stuff into my editor (Vegas) it doesn't make copies of it all located in 1 central location for easy find. It uses the actual source. Thats crap. What if I put a bunch of quick things on my desktop that I will need in the project, import them in, and then delete that crap off my desktop. Now its not in my project anymore. For those of you that never worked in the way im talking about, then you must try Avid's products. Its almost a must once you move to it. I couldn't find any reason to want it the other way. Thats why I hate vegas.

BUT PLEASE. Im really trying to rab you guys up to try to get me to understand. Cause once you guys show me the way. I might be working in Vegas even more. So help me out!


PS : I have found 1 thing thats better with Vegas. The ability to do other processes while capturing your videos to the disk.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

It sounds like most, if not all, of your issues are with the interface, not the program. I agree that I miss a source window. But you can detach the monitor window, resize it, and move it anywhere you want on the screen -- even to a second monitor.

Someone (Jive?) pointed out that because Vegas is NOT based on old linear-editing designs, those who come from old school-style programs have the hardest time getting into it. Because Vegas's lineage isn't video or film editing, it's set up with a fresh perspective, from the point of view of "we want to do THIS -- what's the most logical way of doing it" -- as opposed to slavishly copying what old-style linear and film editing systems do, which might be the TRADITIONAL way of doing something, but it might not be the best way.

I know older people who always manually type things. They do it because it's what they learned on, and it's what seems "the best way" to them. They have all sorts of reasons why it's better than using Word or some other word processor. I really think old-school editors have that same reaction to Vegas. (What?! It doesn't do it THIS way? It's crap!) I think if you really get in there and see how intuitive it is (and unlearn some of things you have learned and come to accept that it's written in stone -- THIS SHALT BE THE WAY), you'll start to see that calling it a souped-up Windows Movie Maker is just plain mean-spirited slander. You may be amazed at the sheer logic of the functionality.

The capabilities of Vegas are staggering. While I'm sure there are some things that Avid can do which Vegas can't, I'm equally sure that those things are on the extreme high-end and geared toward uber-professional applications which contemplate being used in huge production houses by multiple operators. But it terms of sheer video editing functionality, I can't imagine what Avid has that Vegas doesn't. And Avid doesn't have 5.1 surround sound.

(Vegas also does A/B timeline editing if you really want to.)
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

[quote author=skettalee link=board=Vegas;num=1084805898;start=0#5 date=05/18/04 at 05:12:46]
Another thing. When I import stuff into my editor (Vegas) it doesn't make copies of it all located in 1 central location for easy find. It uses the actual source. Thats crap. What if I put a bunch of quick things on my desktop that I will need in the project, import them in, and then delete that crap off my desktop. Now its not in my project anymore. For those of you that never worked in the way im talking about, then you must try Avid's products. Its almost a must once you move to it. I couldn't find any reason to want it the other way. Thats why I hate vegas.
[/quote]

Here's something I didn't address -- this sounds like a media management issue solved easily by simply capturing clips to your project folder to begin with. You have every bit of the functionality as you would of importing from the desktop if you use the Explorer box on the Vegas interface. This might fall under unlearning what you have learned and just doing something a different way from the getgo.

It seems to me that the separate creation of redundant video clips is much more a weakness (and a waste of disk space), anyway . . . does Avid also rename these clips into something for its own use, as opposed to keeping the original filenames? This would be irritating to me.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

Yeah, why are you upset that Vegas doesn't waste space by copying files form where you put them to somewhere else? If you delete the underlying files the project still loads...lets you select where you moved it to or will even find it for you if you let it. Even if you don't, you're project is still fine but those clips are just offline. Also, Vegas doesn't change any of the underlying files - ever. It even does the 2:3 and 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal on the fly.

It does sound like you're used to the old manual typewriters, and just had your first experience with Word. Give it time, Vegas is very customizable and can do anything you want it to do...and most likely a lot faster and easier (once you know how) than Avid and other editors.

Oh, and regarding Vegas crashing...Vegas has been one of the most stable programs I've ever used and I've tortured it pretty badly. I'm using 4, so maybe 5 is more crash prone, however I've also heard form many other users on how stable it has been for them so maybe you have something wrong with your system?

Also, you can set it up for A/Bing if you want - but why? Like it's been said, you need to stop thinking like you've been limited to thinking by other NLEs and start thinking in terms of what you want to do without workflow limitations. Vegas will free your mind :)
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

No i felt just the same way at first. But it actually gives it the names you choose and it puts it all in one location so you just have to copy that directory and your project data to a dvd or whatever external and stuff and go with that. Instead of having to find stuff everywhere. See I am the most organized person i think i have ever met so every picture or video or background or whatever i see, i keep. Very organized in folders. So if im picking stuff from here and there all over the place and putting it in my project, i will never remember where it is to get it later. And check this out. I got 50 cd's full of royalty free soundtrack music. If I wanted to use something, i just pop the cd in and play the tracks in media player, pick the one i want and drag it to avid, it automatically converts it and stores it where it needs to be, pop the cd out and put it in the box and im golden. I just love all that ease of use and organization. Its just great to me. Just like im contradicting myself here saying "dont knock it till ya try it" lol. Its great though. I was very skeptical at first. Disk space limitations is a thing of the past. COME ON!!! A hard drive is cheaper than dirt now a days. I about to buy an exteranl terabyte drive and be golden. Right now I have over 600 gig's in my machine plus some externals already. Im never worried about space issuses and I dont think anyone should be, they are so cheap these days!
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

It sounds as though the easy solution is simply to put everything you want for the project into the same folder -- problem solved. It may take an extra two minutes at the start of the project, but this hardly sounds like a deal-breaker to me unless you really, really want it to be.

So, then, other than this file-copying issue (and this really seems like a preference, rather than a true functionality, issue to me), where is Avid superior to Vegas, to the point where you'd still call Vegas "crap"?
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

I've never used avid, but I used to use premiere 6.5 and switched to vegas 4.0 and I think this was the best move ever. I also think the interface is good even if it looks like wmm. All that matters is what it will do, Right... Vegas is probally one of the most powerful n.l.e. software for under a grand.
I just bought v5.0 and dvda2 2 weeks ago and I like it. a little different, but I like it. I think with everything, it is what you are used to and when you change it's kinda like "this sucks" because it does things different(like premiere) sometimes change is good and brings out different creativity because it forces you to learn. I am still having problems learning some things in vegas because I am used to the "old way" but am adapting very well.
Vegas rocks..................

p.s.
If you do need help with something this forum is great almost every post I have made someone has been able to help me and I go on my way.
Also use what works for you avid or vegas. whatever it takes to get the job done.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

It's funny how a completely illogical methodology for non-linear editing becomes the "best way" to do something just because it's been the only way to do it.  Take the Source/Record workflow metaphor for instance.  Avid first implemented this type of workflow because it helped editors who were transitioning from linear editing.  While this was definitely a help for linear editors (myself included), two monitors are not necessary in non-linear editing as they most definitely are in linear editing.  While I sometimes miss the source/record setup, I nevertheless come to the realization that it is a waste of space in a NLE as a single video "monitor" in a computer program can instantly switch between an infinite number of "sources".  The only time I see a need for the two monitor workflow is in a live switching production where I need to view different cameras and the current master output at the same time.  In such an environment, neither Vegas nor Avid would be suitable.  In a post-production workflow, you're only going to be viewing one source at a time, so it's really not necessary, albeit a familier workflow.

From what you're saying, it doesn't so much sound like Vegas is lacking something, but rather, you are not comfortable using it.  I too was not comfortable using Vegas when I first started using it and nearly chucked it and settled for Avid.  It was only when I started using Vegas exclusively that I became comfortable with its workflow (which is quite different from most NLEs, as most NLEs copy Avid).  It was then that I also became more familiar with Vegas' deeper intricacies and found it to provide a much more efficient workflow compared to other NLEs.

As for the interface, I too wanted to complain to Vegas' developers (then Sonic Foundry) because it just didn't look "pro" enough.  I missed my brushed metal GUI in FCP and purple-y colors of Avid.  Even Sony knows that the look of the interface is not as pretty as the others, but in my conversations with the developers at NAB and the like, I find that they are far more interested in the function of their NLE rather than how it looks.  Colors and pretty icons notwithstanding, the button layout and the always highly efficient tabbed interface provide as much of an efficient a workflow as any NLE.

However, I find that people (myself included) are becoming far too concerned with the tools that were used to create something rather than the creation itself.  If you think you can do better work in Avid, then work in Avid.  Efficiency has always been my key concern in post-production, and that's why I chose Vegas. I also know the way I edit, and I find Vegas a good fit for my workflow.  Vegas is not for everyone.  In fact, users with no prior experience with editing may pick it up much faster than those coming from linear editing on NLEs like FCP or Avid because they don't have to 'unlearn' the "old" way of doing things.

At any rate, no one but you can "buy" you into Vegas, it's all up to you.  As you said, you hated certain "features" in Avid when you first started using it, but now you say it's a deal-breaker if an NLE doesn't have this "feature" (i.e. the collation of project files).  Just a thought, but perhaps you are currently experiencing the same thing with Vegas?
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

Well put Jive

I am one of those USERS without PRIOR EXPERIENCE. Although I have 'messed and toyed' with FCP & PREMIERE I probally had more experience splicing Super 8 footage!

I have picked Vegas super quick (always been a quick study; particualry when I'm 'into it'). I love it even though I cannot compare anything else.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

I've been using Avid dv. Before that it was premiere. Just this week i got around to seriously playing around with Vegas. Besides xpress pro with a mojo, it's probably the best NLE for PC. I ttook a while to get used to the interface as everyone else has pointed out. But damn, you can do so much with it! The velocity stuff and the 24p editing alone make it better than Avid DV.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

well put jive. You are right, he is the only one that can "buy himself" into vegas. I came from premiere and I like vegas better but the only other n.l.e. I have used is ulead media studio pro.
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Vegas;num=1084805898;start=0#11 date=05/18/04 at 13:30:59]It sounds as though the easy solution is simply to put everything you want for the project into the same folder --  problem solved.  It may take an extra two minutes at the start of the project, but this hardly sounds like a deal-breaker to me unless you really, really want it to be.

So, then, other than this file-copying issue (and this really seems like a preference, rather than a true functionality, issue to me),  where is Avid superior to Vegas, to the point where you'd still call Vegas "crap"?


[/quote]


You dont understand, its not an extra 2 minutes at start. It extra minutes everytime you think of something new you want to import. Can you tell me that every or even half of your projects, you know exactly what you are gonna use the whole way through with no improvision? I dont think so.


Also, you just gotta use avid. Its so much smoother, easier to run through. Way more stable. I never once seen AVID crash in my whole time using it.

You just gotta try it to understand. I didn't understand and was skeptical until I used Avid's products also!
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

[quote author=awesomesean link=board=Vegas;num=1084805898;start=0#12 date=05/18/04 at 13:32:02]Vegas is probally one of the most powerful n.l.e. software for under a grand.[/quote]


You can have that remark.

Final Cut Pro and Premiere Pro are both 10 times more powerful than vegas. You can have that. I would say that it is almost a proven fact!
 
Re: Honestly how? I Dont Get It.

Hehe, this is now a cool post. I turned a little "im pissed" into a great debate.

I should have added in the beginning though..... I know have to use Vegas. I said earlier that I been using it forever. Since before 4.0 came out. Actually right before it came out. So I know how to use it and I have made stuff on it. But nothing that I would call pro. When I use it however, I just feel in my skin, this limitation. Probably because I know Avid Xpress Pro with mojo is a ton better. Not cause I think it. Hehe!!! No but really....

I hate a program that right when I open it up I see a bunch of "HEY IM A BABY EDITOR" transitions all over the place.

The only transitions that should be in a persons vocabulary are slide across, fade, and straight cuts. Does anyone actually think this "HEY I USED VEGAS AND NOW I GOT 3D RUN AROUND TRANSITIONS" is cool?


Thats what I dont like. I just know these locals here that edit their skate video with Vegas and they were saying crap about it being the best. Well I admit its great... BUT FOR BEGINNERS.

You guys that never used Avid Xpress Pro or higher NLE's by AVID really need to try it out. You will see how much smoother the work flow is once you used it for a month.

Im just trying to buy people on some avid. I admit though that the company is suckin ass by letting these companies like Adobe and Sony come out with something for so much cheaper that almost equals Avids products for around 500 more. Screw them for that.

But dont knock it till you try it with the latest Avid Products. I know alot about Vegas and used it tons. So I tried it. For year(s) and still know whats the best.

The only thing I cant argue about with the source/record setup is the space on the desktop! What about your marking in and marking out? Say you are looking at your Record footage, then on vegas you gotta find some source footage and then put it into the trimmer and then go looking for the time mark to use and then select just that section and then drag it into the timeline.

With avids all you have to do is mark in, mark out and drag really quick. I know how they both work, used them both for over a year and know which one makes working easier.

You know what its all about.... TIME.. how much time it takes for you to get something completed. And I can get things compeleted 10 times faster in Avid even though I know how to use Vegas tools just as fast/good. Its the program thats slows workflow down. Not my experience with it!
 
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