Hmc150 vs ex1

To me, the choice of the EX1 or the HMC comes down to one thing. And it's not really the CCDv CMOS for most, nor the media costs any more. But the SDI port on the EX1 is a game changer. Maybe not for most people today, but down the road for some of us.

In my case, the ability to plug into our broadcast gear was huge. More significant than the 1/2 imagers, more significant than the variable frame rates. I can now feed the broadcast gear just like the local TV guys do. And that was easily worth the price of admission. As boxes like the Convergent become as common as today's firestores, I'll be thrilled to have this capability.
 
Yes.. those converters are great! I'll also gladly take 2 150s over an EX1. That camera is horrible to do handheld stuff with... makes the XL1 feel like a dream. It's not all about the imagery.. but also how it handles and how light and easy it is for a variety of operators. With the 150, I can give the camera to my wife and she'll go and shoot the stuff I don't want to shoot, and I could never do that with the EX1... she'd complain after 5 minutes... I've never liked the ergonomics of Sony cameras... seems like they are designed to be on sticks and nothing else...


One vote here for 2x 150 over 1xEx1.
 
Justyn said:
Yes.. those converters are great! I'll also gladly take 2 150s over an EX1. That camera is horrible to do handheld stuff with... makes the XL1 feel like a dream. It's not all about the imagery.. but also how it handles and how light and easy it is for a variety of operators. With the 150, I can give the camera to my wife and she'll go and shoot the stuff I don't want to shoot, and I could never do that with the EX1... she'd complain after 5 minutes... I've never liked the ergonomics of Sony cameras... seems like they are designed to be on sticks and nothing else...
Click to expand...


See here's the thing...

Who buys a $3k-$7k camera to chase the kids around? I've seen a number of movies being made, and spent plenty of time in TV studios and out on shoots. And I have never seen anyone TRULY handholding a camera. I've seen cameras on tripods, dollies, cranes, stabilizers, shoulder mounts, sandbags, etc. But not once have I seen one simply being held bare in someone's hands.

So if we aren't actually handholding the camera to do filming, what is the point of worrying about what it feels like in the hand? I actually haven't handheld a camera since 2003 when I got my DVX.

My FigRig is my new handheld and man do I like that thing.
 
about 80% of my freelance work is filming bmx/action sports. and i'm almost always going handheld. so that plaid a huge role in my decision to go with the hmc150, which has been a godsend compared to the hvx, so i can't even imagine the pain i'd go through with the ex1.
 
I never shoot handheld either, in my case it's the Cinesaddle that I tend to use. But kudos to those that like handheld and can do it well. It's too tiring and inconsistent to get the results I need shooting handheld, take after take etc.
 
Evro said:
I decided to go for the two HMCs because I couldn't convince myself that I was getting double the value from the EX1. Although the EX1's image would have intercut better with our Canon XH-A1s, I really wanted to go tapeless while also trying to run a viable wedding video business.

I still think the EX1 is the better camera but then at almost double the cost of the HMC it bloody well should be.
Click to expand...

Evro:

I agree with and followed your line of reasoning on this. I ended up getting rid of the XH-A1s just to simplify and maintain consistency.

I really wanted the EX-1 but certainly couldn't afford two. Although it is the better camera, you still have to contend with a bunch of negatives with it.

I do look forward to the next 1/3" (or 1/2" upsize) sensor iteration on the Panasonics, but am very happy with the current 150. I shot my first HMC-150 low light play this last tuesday. It turned out great under pitiful lighting conditions. The A1s would have choked in that light.
 
manglerBMX said:
about 80% of my freelance work is filming bmx/action sports. and i'm almost always going handheld. so that plaid a huge role in my decision to go with the hmc150, which has been a godsend compared to the hvx, so i can't even imagine the pain i'd go through with the ex1.
Click to expand...

I have been running deshaker scripts in the NLE on almost all of my HMC-150 handheld footage. It always helps and can sometimes perform pretty miraculous results.

It can even fix a botched pan, tilt or zoom.

Try it if you aren't already.
 
I buy cameras to do a variety of things including chasing the kids around. I don't want to miss those moment when they grow up because of a camera. I have to be mobile and all situations arise and being in the middle of the Florida everglades or shooting from a tube behind a boat require different applications. I wish I could say that things were black and white but they are not.


I do know that he who protest too much has something to hide. Do you have buyers remorse? I dont seem to have the time to check out the EX1 forums or some of these as I'm shooting with a cam that I like. I think you might want to shoot more EX1 stuff and then post it over there and prove how much better it is. I agree its a tight ass cam.. Just not one that I chose for a few reaons.

Lets be happy with a choice, post helpful stuff and move on.


PerroneFord said:
See here's the thing...

Who buys a $3k-$7k camera to chase the kids around? I've seen a number of movies being made, and spent plenty of time in TV studios and out on shoots. And I have never seen anyone TRULY handholding a camera. I've seen cameras on tripods, dollies, cranes, stabilizers, shoulder mounts, sandbags, etc. But not once have I seen one simply being held bare in someone's hands.

So if we aren't actually handholding the camera to do filming, what is the point of worrying about what it feels like in the hand? I actually haven't handheld a camera since 2003 when I got my DVX.

My FigRig is my new handheld and man do I like that thing.
Click to expand...
 
No buyers remorse here. My only remorse is that I can't shoot with the thing MORE! If I had the money, I'd buy another one today. The HMC seems like a great camera too, but wouldn't have worked for me because of some specific issues. I'd like to try one though, and a friend was supposed to get one but that seems to have fallen through.

Ah well, didn't mean to slam you. Sorry if it seemed that way.
 
Point taken and understood. You have been a good sport and bring valid points. I personally am the most fickle camera owner. Jumping brands and models when something new comes out. I don't think I'm like this with anything else, but seems like there's a need for a new cam about every 3 years.. like a leased car perhaps.


i think you'll dig the 150. The noise improvement alone is way better thann what i got from the original HVX.. .
 
Just a quick note for the record... I have two boys, one is 4 months which limits my chasing him with a camera, ha!, and the other is just under 3 years old, who is always on the go! I have at the very minimum 100 hours of footage of chasing him with my EX1, handheld, and following him around everywhere we go. And that little booger can run fast when he wants to, ha ha! I have dollies/track, tripods, stabilizers, jibs, shoulder supports, etc., but 90% of what I've been shooting with my EX1 is simply handheld.

I guess because I've never had a camcorder this size before (they all been little palm-sized ones in the past, as well as my still cameras), that I don't find handholding the EX1 any problem at all. In fact I like it and it feels good in my hand. I'm often shooting simply holding the handle while running at a low angle, using the flip-out lcd to compose on the go. Maybe if I had shot with an HVX or something else prior I would think the EX1 sucks handheld because most people say it sucks, but I have no problems whatsoever. It doesn't feel awkward or off center to me. My only complaint would be if I use two hands on the camera it's easy to unintentionally touch a button, but I've gotten to the point I'm aware of it so it's not a problem.

But I'm living proof that simply having an EX1 does not mean you'll miss any footage of your kids growing up, ha! I'm documenting nearly ever step they take! Granted my wife has no interest in my EX1, mostly because of the complexity (not sure I'd trust her with it anyway, ha ha!), but she gets great footage with our little Sony HC9 and/or her Canon Powershot, which allows for short clips for those precious spontaneous moments when you're not carrying a video camera.

Anyway, just my two cents. Don't let my "Senior Member" status here confuse anyone that I actually know what I'm talking about. :)
 
Personally, being a person in their 40s and having been strictly a hand-held shooter over the years, I had grown used to hand holding heavy cameras like my old JVC HD200, however, the HMC's extreme light weight yet large size (which helps stability) is something you can only appreciate as your body starts to age ;)

There are many times during dancing at weddings for example, where to avoid shooting the back of people's heads you have no choice but to hold the camera up high shooting down on the action. The lighter camera always wins in this situation especially where having a tripod or monopod hampers fast angle changes. At twice the weight of the HMC I don't think I could hold an EX1 up above my head in that situation for long - perhaps you younger ones can :)
 
Ok, I'd like to semi-hijack this thread and I promise I'm not trying to be a troll :)

I'm going through the same decision making process btw the HMC and the EX1.

I will be making full length narrative films. No wedding/docs/kids/news/etc. type of shooting.

Cost of camera/media/ergonomics are not important to me. Image quality and flexibility are of primary importance to me.

This is the part that sounds trollish: Almost all of the HMC video I've seen looks pretty bad in comparison to the EX1 videos I've seen, which are generally a LOT better looking. I acknowledge that this may be subjective.

My sampling is limited to what I've seen on Vimeo or a few sample from Twighlight fest downloads. I'm doing simple searches on Vimeo for "hmc 150" and "ex1". I'm aware that the components of the camera are similar to HVX and I've seen a couple decent images posted from that camera. I've not touched either camera in person.

So part of my questions revolve around the reasons for this. It could be that:

A) The HMC is newer and capable of producing great pictures and people just haven't figured out how to work well with it yet
B) People have made great pictures and I haven't found them
C) What I've seen of the HMC/EX1 is representative of the capabilities and the EX1 just plain has a much better picture.
D) Many of the EX1 shots are using a Letus/35mm adapter and if you used a 35mm on the HMC you would get just as nice an image.

I've never had cameras from Panny or Sony, so I have no allegiance to either or an axe to grind. I just want to get the best looking footage I can for my budget, which at the high end can afford an EX1 (no Reds for me).

Thanks for your indulgence! :)
 
bobbigboote said:
Ok,
I will be making full length narrative films. No wedding/docs/kids/news/etc. type of shooting.

Cost of camera/media/ergonomics are not important to me. Image quality and flexibility are of primary importance to me.


Thanks for your indulgence! :)
Click to expand...

I have the HMC-150 and the Canon XH-A1, both good cameras.

From what you say above, I think everyone will agree to go for the EX-1, at a minimum. It's a better camera at a higher price point. The negatives it has like rolling shutter just don't matter on non live-action realtime events. If something were to happen, you just re-shoot.

Could you get great results with the HMC-150? Of course, but I would go with the best tools you can afford.
 
I just shot this with the 150... perspective is off, but you get the idea.. and it looks really flipping good on an HD player..


I think that the EX1 does sound more like the camera for you.. especially if you are doing adapter stuff... but if you were doing run and gun or handheld stuff, then I'd say.. Yikes to that.
 
If cost of camera/media/ergonomics is not important to you and you are strictly making full length narratives then none of these prosumer cameras are going to be good enough for you, especially if your film is for theatre distribution.

If I was in your position I'd be renting a Red One or any of the other 2-4K cameras that everyone is using for serious narrative work, otherwise, you're no different to most of us here who shoot weddings/docs/kids/news/etc... :D

I have to say it again that the EX1 cannot be fairly compared to the HMC150 and it's ridiculous to make such comparisons. C'mon guys the glass (leica stamp or not) and the CCD block are nowhere near the league of the EX1's Fujinon glass or 1/2" CMOS block and were never intended to be so we gotta stop these silly comparisons.

The way I see it is that the HMC was never designed with feature film of broadcast work in mind because it lacks features important to those fields, it is however about to become one of the greatest & most affordable event work & indy fimmaker cameras since the DVX!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top