HMC150 does anybody know this?

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falves1

Member
The HMC150 is about to be released. Its the replacement to the DVX100 with TAPELESS SD card capability. It does not have HD-SDI that the HPX170 is supposed to have but clocks in alot less $3995.

The questions are:
Does it not shoot HD?
I need to see link with the specs from Panasonic. I don't need an SDI connector, but I need better low light performance than the HVX 200.
How do you compare the HMC150 with the HVX 200a? and with the Sony EX3?
 
Yes, it shoots AVCHD at about 21 mbps.

Doesn't shoot variable frame rates.

1/3" 3 CCD

720p and 1080i HD recording

2 XLR inputs

13x zoom

24p

SD card (tapeless) memory using MPEG4 codec (more efficient than HDV) - up to 720 min record time with 32gb card

Waveform / Vectorscope / Histogram in viewfinder

Dynamic range stretch

HDMI/Component/Composite out

Completely solid state

Free Two Year Warranty Extension
 
David S. said:
Yes, it shoots AVCHD at about 21 mbps.
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I'm just wondering where you heard this about the 21 mbps because I had originally heard (a while ago) that it was going to be somewhere between 14 and 20, which gives a much poorer quality compression. If it's 21, then all of the preliminary negatives I had heard about sub-20 mbps AVCHD would be addressed.
 
falves1 said:
It does not have HD-SDI that the HPX170 is supposed to have but clocks in alot less $3995.
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$3995 is not confirmed as far as I know. That's my guess for the price, but the only thing we've been told is that it will be "under $4500."

Does it not shoot HD?
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Yes it does HD, it does 1080i, 1080P, and 720P HD. It does 24P, 30P, and 720/60P and 1080/60i.

I don't need an SDI connector, but I need better low light performance than the HVX 200.
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It's much better in low light than the original HVX200. It's 1/2 stop more sensitive, with a lot less grain, so you can actually go to 6dB, maybe 9dB of gain before its grain is equivalent to the HVX200. Which means you're getting a real-world 1.5 to 2 stops better low light performance at comparable grain.

How do you compare the HMC150 with the HVX 200a?
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Vs. the 200A, the big things are going to be that the 200A has a DV tape drive, shoots DVCPRO-HD, shoots on P2 cards, can record standard-def, and does variable frame rates (about 34 different frame rates from 2fps up to 60fps).

The 150, on the other hand, is going to be $1500 to $2,000 less expensive, and it shoots AVC-HD onto inexpensive commodity SD memory cards. It shoots 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 1080/60i, 720/24p, 720/30p, and 720/60p. It has variable compression quality, ranging from 6mbps at the low end up to 24mbps on the high end.

They're going to have the same lens, and the same imaging block, and the same DSP. At adequate bitrates, the images should look quite comparable.

The 150 is going to cost a lot less, both in original camera cost and also in cost per gigabyte of memory storage. But, the format is currently more difficult to edit.

The 150 is also about 1.5 pounds lighter than the 200A.

Here's how I sum it up: if you NEED a DV tape drive, get the 200A.

Otherwise, if you're a professional shooter, a broadcaster, a production house, somebody who needs the P2 and DVCPRO-HD formats, or you need variable frame rates, the HPX170 is hands down the better camera.

If you're on a budget, you're shooting personal projects, you don't need P2 or DVCPRO-HD, then the 150 looks irresistible. The only frowny part would be the lack of variable frame rates, but even so it seems like most people shooting VFR end up shooting 60fps slow-mo, and the 150 will let you do that, so it might not be much of a limitation. And it's a whole lot less expensive.


and with the Sony EX3?
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150 against EX3? Or the EX1?

Comparing a 150 against an EX3 makes very little sense, you're talking about a $8300 camcorder whose main purpose in life is to have interchangeable lenses, vs. a camera that costs less than half as much. I don't see the comparison.

But against the EX1? I think the 150 will do *very* well against the EX1. If someone wants a long-GOP 4:2:0 low-bitrate camera, I think a $3500-$4000 HMC150 recording onto a $30 SD card is going to hold an incredible amount of appeal vs. a $6500 camera recording onto a $900 memory card. The camera is way cheaper, the memory is astoundingly cheaper, and you get more recording time per gigabyte too. Plus immunity from rolling shutter artifacts. On the other hand, the EX1 offers a noticeably sharper picture and variable frame rates and 50/60hz switchability. You will get more from the EX1, obviously, and you should since it's two price classes higher than the HMC150.
 
Hi, just did some testing with one of the only 150's available and have been super impressed with the quality of the footage. Has played quite nicely with FCP on my laptop and think many will be impressed with the 21 MBPS quality for the market this camera is intended for.
 
Barry_Green said:
They're going to have the same lens, and the same imaging block, and the same DSP. At adequate bitrates, the images should look quite comparable.

The 150 is going to cost a lot less, both in original camera cost and also in cost per gigabyte of memory storage. But, the format is currently more difficult to edit.
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The $3,995 is official from Panasonic now. They also say:

"In addition, a free transcoder, available for download from the Panasonic Broadcast Web site, will convert AVCHD files to DVCPRO HD files for use with most existing professional editing packages."

Do you know anything about that? Would you expect the converted DVCPRO HD footage from a 150 to be comperable to the 200a?

For the money, I've been leaning more towards the 150. Used almost exclusively for filming snowboarding and skateboarding. Knowing that, would the 150 likely be as good a camera as the hpx170? (shot in 720 / 30 and 60 at the highest quality settings)? thanks.

Here's the entire release:

Panasonic to Ship AG-HMC150 AVCCAM Cam

Slated to hit in early October.






Panasonic announced today suggested list pricing and a ship date for its new AG-HMC150 professional handheld AVCCAM camcorder. Based on the design and advanced functionality of the highly popular DVX100, this new camcorder will offer both 1080 and 720 HD recording with solid-state SD memory card recording. With an exciting range of professional features, impressive picture quality and a sleek, compact design, the new AVCCAM handheld will be available on Thursday, October 2 at a suggested list price of $3,995.

[SIZE=-2]
AG-HMC150-side.gif
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The HMC150 provides 1080/720 AVCHD recording at bit rates up to 24Mbps and a simple, solid-state SD memory card workflow. AVCHD, the industry’s new MPEG-4 / AVC Hi Profile compression format, provides a near doubling of bandwidth efficiency with improved video performance over the older MPEG-2 compression used in HDV formats. As a result, AVCHD recordings made by Panasonic AVCCAM camcorders are crisp and clear, even during fast motion, reducing image degradation or dropouts associated with HDV and other tape or disc-based systems.

The HMC150 features 1/3” 16:9 progressive 3-CCD imagers that improve signal-to-noise ratio and deliver excellent low-light performance. It is equipped with a 13X Leica Dicomar zoom lens system offering an extra-wide 28mm (35mm equivalent) angle setting (the widest in its class). For stable, precise shooting in any situation, the AVCCAM camcorder features a cam-driven manual zoom ring, auto or manual operation of focus and iris, and optical image stabilization (O.I.S.). The HMC150 offers a host of selectable gamma tools including Cine-like gamma to produce warm film-like images, as well as helpful shooting functions such as a waveform monitor and a vectorscope display, focus assist and Dynamic Range Stretch (DRS).

The HMC150 records in a range of HD formats including 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 1080/60i, 720/24p, 720/30p and 720/60p. The handheld records stunning high definition in four recording modes – the highest quality PH mode (average 21 Mbps/max. 24 Mbps), HA mode (approx.17 Mbps), HG mode (approx.13 Mbps) and HE mode (approx. 6 Mbps). It captures full horizontal resolution 1920x1080 images at its PH, HA and HG recording modes. The camera can also be set to capture 1280x720 images in its PH mode. The recorded AVCHD files can also maintain metadata for individual recorded clips.

With the HMC150, videographers can capitalize on the cost advantages, reliability and widespread availability of SD and SDHC memory cards. Using just one 32GB SDHC memory card, users can record three hours of full pixel 1920x1080 video and audio at PH mode, four hours at HA mode and 5.3 hours at HG mode. In the HE mode, the camera can record up to 12 hours of 1440x1080 HD content – all on a single 32GB SDHC card.

The HMC150 comes standard with interface connections including HDMI out, USB 2.0, HD component out (mini D terminal), composite out as well as jacks to control zoom remotely, focus, iris and start/stop functions. Professional audio connections include XLR two-channel audio input (48V phantom power) with mic/line select, built-in stereo microphone, headphone out, manual two-channel audio level VR and RCA audio out jacks. The camera also offers a time/date stamp for legal depositions or surveillance, histogram display and time code/user bits. Other useful recording functions include pre-record, interval and shot marker, as well as new modes including last-clip delete and Rec check, which allows immediate review of the most-recently recorded clip.
Compact and lightweight, the 3.7 lb. handheld has an easy-to-grip design for balanced, stable shooting in a variety of environments. The camera has a color viewfinder and a 3.5-inch color LCD monitor that displays content in thumbnail images for quick viewing. Other valuable features include SMPTE time code generator/reader, three user buttons with 11 choices for customization, and a high-speed shutter (up to 1/2000 sec.)

For editing or playback, professionals can instantly transfer content from the HMC150 camcorder to Mac or PC computers with an SD/SDHC card reader or by connecting the camcorder directly via its USB 2.0 interface. Unlike HDV tapes, SD cards with AVCHD content can be inserted into and played back on a growing number of affordable playback devices including Blu-ray players (like Panasonic’s DMP-BD30), the Sony PlayStation 3, and some new Panasonic plasma displays, as well as computers with an SD card slot using applications that play AVCHD files. Using NLE software, content can also be edited and rendered in various formats and delivered on a wide range of media.
AVCHD is supported by wide range of editing options including Apple iMovie, Apple Final Cut Pro 6.0.1, Adobe Premier Pro CS3, Grass Valley Edius PRO v4.5, Pinnacle Studio Plus 11, Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 12, Nero7 Premium Reloaded, Ulead Video Studio 11 plus and DVD Movie Factory 6 Plus. In addition, a free transcoder, available for download from the Panasonic Broadcast Web site, will convert AVCHD files to DVCPRO HD files for use with most existing professional editing packages.

Recording onto SD/SDHC cards offers a fast and simple, file-based workflow with ultra-reliable performance and resistance to shock, vibration and extreme temperatures and weather. SD and SDHC memory cards are inexpensive, widely available and can be reused repeatedly. Since AVCHD records video as digital data files, content can be transferred and stored on affordable, high-capacity hard disk drives (HDD) and optical storage media and transferred to future storage media as technology advances. To backup Panasonic’s claim of solid-state reliability, the HMC150 comes with a three-year limited warranty upon registration.
The HMC150 will be available on October 2, at a suggested list price of $3,995. Panasonic offers a wide section of SD and SDHC cards in 32GB, 16GB, 8GB, 4GB, 2GB and 1GB sizes. (To record in the high-quality PH mode, an SD card specified at class 4 and higher is required.)
 
R.Lang said:
"In addition, a free transcoder, available for download from the Panasonic Broadcast Web site, will convert AVCHD files to DVCPRO HD files for use with most existing professional editing packages."
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You can download it now, it's free.

Would you expect the converted DVCPRO HD footage from a 150 to be comperable to the 200a?
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Well, maybe. It depends on how robust the 21mbps/24mbps AVC-HD is. It might be (except for the 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2 issue).

For the money, I've been leaning more towards the 150. Used almost exclusively for filming snowboarding and skateboarding. Knowing that, would the 150 likely be as good a camera as the hpx170? (shot in 720 / 30 and 60 at the highest quality settings)? thanks.
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I bet most folks will find them extremely comparable.
 
Thanks. Are you working on a book and/or DVDs for this camera?

And you think the AVC HD compression would work fine with some fast motion (board flips, etc)? also considering that all slow motion has to be done in post?
 
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I will probably do something for the 150, but I haven't gotten any time with one yet so I couldn't get started now even if I had the time.

Slow motion doesn't need to be done in post on a 150. You can shoot 720/60P mode and then play it back frame-for-frame in a 24P timeline. So, yeah, it's sort of doing slow-mo in post, but not like in the bad old days, it would look (probably) the same as HVX or EX1 slow-mo.

As far as how the compression will work, that's the big question. 24 megabits is the absolute maximum that AVC-HD specifications allow. I suspect that the 150 will probably be at least every bit as solid and robust as the EX1 is regarding codec performance. I actually expect it to be noticeably better, but I'm hedging the bet a little...
 
As long as a transcode for editing is going to happen, what's the preferable editing format? Is DVCPRO-HD preferable somehow to Pro Res for the FCP platform, or just the goto format for PC users?
 
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