HMC 150 and editing

ramkuma

ramkuma

Well-known member
I am thoroughly confused about how to save and move files from the camera to both PC and Mac. Seems like Mac and PC don't work together at all. Stuff I save on an external hard drive from Mac won't open on PC and vice versa. And I can't figure out the differences between all the different file formats--mov, wmv, avc, m2ts, mts, etc... Can anyone recommend an info page or discussion board where I can try to figure out all this stuff?
 
My guess, and this is only a guess based on knowledge from a previous lifetime (a decade or so ago) is that you're dealing with different file structures -- FAT32 vs. NTFS.

Windows systems, that use NTFS, have no file size limits. FAT32, used by Mac, has that 4 gig file size limit. I believe this is the reason we get hit with that 4gig limit on our HMC150 -- to accommodate Macs.

So -- I could be entirely wrong and my insight could be entirely obsolete stuff from a decade ago. But, it may start you down the right track. Or not.

Good luck.
 
AGMedia said:
My guess, and this is only a guess based on knowledge from a previous lifetime (a decade or so ago) is that you're dealing with different file structures -- FAT32 vs. NTFS.

Windows systems, that use NTFS, have no file size limits. FAT32, used by Mac, has that 4 gig file size limit. I believe this is the reason we get hit with that 4gig limit on our HMC150 -- to accommodate Macs.

So -- I could be entirely wrong and my insight could be entirely obsolete stuff from a decade ago. But, it may start you down the right track. Or not.

Good luck.
Click to expand...


Wow, this is so wrong and out of date, so time to update your info :) (no offence intended here btw!)

I'm not going to get in to the Mac vs PC debate here, but Macs do not use fat 32 for their HDDs - and as far as I remember - never did! In fact Macs can store files larger than NTFS can.

• NTFS has a 16TB file limit which to some people may seem like it's unlimited - but it's a limit all the same.

• Mac OS, Linux etc moved past this limit quite a few years ago and the file size limits are in the order of exabytes rather than lowly terrabytes!

The only reason Mac supports FAT 32 is because other devices (like cameras etc) do, and Mac plays well with all these devices natively. Older windows versions seemed to need device drivers for everything, although newer versions are much more plug and play.

Now, getting back to the OP, it really doesn't matter which OS's native format you choose, you can get software for the other that will read/write the HDD format (though it's usually easier to transfer locally via network).

I have both Mac and PC systems here and have no problems sharing large files via external HDDs on either Mac OS or NTFS. On the Mac I have software installed that can read/write NTFS HDDs. On Windows I have software that can read/write Mac OS drives.

Now, file types can easily be confusing because not all of them are as simple as file=codec. For instance, Quicktime files (.mov) are a container so a .mov file can be Prores in one file, H264 in another etc etc.

WMV, AVI etc are the same situation - different codecs can be used.
 
The only reason Mac supports FAT 32 is because other devices (like cameras etc) do.
Click to expand...
That's actually backwards. The only reason modern hardware use the outdated FAT32 file format it to accommodate Macs, which can't natively read/write to NTFS out of the box.
 
Last edited:
Jim Simon said:
That's actually backwards. The only reason modern hardware use the outdated FAT32 file format it to accommodate Macs, which can't natively read/write to NTFS out of the box.
Click to expand...

Wrong!

We could argue this all day long, but if that's the way you want to look at it then the only people to blame would be Microsoft for trying to keep NTFS proprietary for so long AND for making it so complicated. For all the devices to support NTFS it would have required MS to release detailed file system information to the world, something they refused to do. Just because an MS computer can format a card to NTFS doesn't mean your camera could read/write it - because it can't. Device manufacturers don't support NTFS because Microsoft didn't want them to, the same reason Macs don't support it out of the box.

So maybe it's backwards from how you have been thinking things really were?

Devices implemented FAT 32 because it was easy to do and the information on how the file system worked was available. Mac (and Linux etc) support it for the same reasons. Given the market dominance of Microsoft it would have been very easy for device manufacturers to go with NTFS if they had been given information from Microsoft early enough and if NTFS had been suitable for low powered embedded devices - which it isn't.

So, lets be clear, Mac supports FAT 32 because device manufactures do, not the other way around. Mac's OS and file system can support larger files than NTFS, so if anything would be the better choice for devices. It's also more suitable to embedded devices than NTFS, but Microsoft refused to support it because it would threaten their attempt to totally dominate the world in the server market (something they failed to do).

Many more embedded devices in this world use Linux file systems (more similar to Mac OS than NTFS) - think of all your set top boxes etc that run Linux - even though you don't realise it.

Whenever you have a proprietary / closed file system (like NTFS) it's bad news for consumers. Look at how successful ISO9660 and UDF have been, both of which have been openly documented since the beginning. UDF can also cope with larger files, but it's too complicated to implement in small embedded devices, just the same as NTFS.

So, let's not get in to a Microsoft / Apple / Windows / Mac debate here, but instead hope that the world can come together and figure out a new standard for embedded devices to use files larger than 4GB that ALL O/Ss can support very soon, open source, open standards, license free.
 
I downloaded "Mac Drive 8" software and am now able to see the MOV files on my PC off the external.
However, the quality of the video is horrible--almost unwatchable. The strange thing is, other files that were saved as MOV files on the same external months ago have great quality.
 
Last edited:
Back to you work flow... You should be copying the whole PRIVATE directory when you are saving your footage. This way you have the raw-ish files and they can work (or be converted) on either platform.

When you are saving them as MOV files you are either re-rendering them in a different format/quality or wrapping them which is harder on your NLE.

Fat32 format will work fine on either system since the SDHC cards are Fat32 anyways and dont break the 4gig file size. I have found that the Mac OS formated drives work naturally in Windows so everything gets formated Mac OS when it comes to video backup for me now.
 
Macs and PCs play well together, but not perfectly.

My suggestion: choose your editing software, be it FC, AVID, Premier, or Sony Vegas and stay with it and get to know what works. Choose and learn that piece of software and the OS it runs on. Macs can read PC formated drives. PCs can read MAC formatted drives with help from third party plugins.

If you are looking for MAC OS related questions, the APPLE support site has lots of info. This Forum has lots of info. Do a search on the issue you want to find an answer for and I bet you will find your answer. Put the question to Google and you will find an answer.

OR take an online course from Lynda.com or the other online tutorial sites in the subject of your choice. There is a wealth of info available to help you learn.
 
The excellent CineForm CODEC is one of the few Mac / PC cross-platform CODECs, where you can create a CineForm file on one platform and then open it on the other platform with no problems. The only issue is that you have to have the CineForm CODEC installed on both platforms. CineForm NEO SCENE is the cheapest way to buy the basic CineForm CODEC. $100 from VideoGuys.com
 
How do you render an external hard drive to a Fat32 format? I understand you need to do this before putting any files on the external hard drive?
@TheDingo: I have done exhaustive search on both Google and Apple/Mac discussion boards and can't find a clear answer. Everything seems to me to go in circles with no clear resolution---all these different formats, files, codecs, etc. are clear as mud. I think the best advice is to stay with one software with one operating system. This is not practical with my line of work though because I am working with different shooters using different systems, and converting old tape footage into digital footage.
 
ramkuma said:
How do you render an external hard drive to a Fat32 format? I understand you need to do this before putting any files on the external hard drive?
@TheDingo: I have done exhaustive search on both Google and Apple/Mac discussion boards and can't find a clear answer. Everything seems to me to go in circles with no clear resolution---all these different formats, files, codecs, etc. are clear as mud. I think the best advice is to stay with one software with one operating system. This is not practical with my line of work though because I am working with different shooters using different systems, and converting old tape footage into digital footage.
Click to expand...

Use Cineform to be cross platform compatible while retaining the best quality at rational cost.

In terms of using external FAT32 drives, all works well as long as you keep the files small (< 4GB). Once you go past this - forget it. Sorry.
 
There's quite a bit of misinformation here so I'll try to clarify a few things.

-First, I don't mean to sound like a ****, but I'd recommend you read a book or two on basic computer usage. It will really help to fill in some of the blanks
-Second, Adobe has several whitepapers on workflows for various video formats. They are short (few pages) and very useful.
-You don't "render an external hard to a Fat32 format".

You should never use FAT32 for any of your drives. FAT32 is an old file system and if you format any one of your hard drives as FAT32 you're going to have major problems since many video files and DVD/BD images exceed the 4GB file size limit. You should always use NTFS on a modern computer if running Windows.

Macs use HFS+ file system.

Some points:

-most devices use FAT32 because it's been around for a while, there are open source (free) implementations of it, and most individual files do not exceed 4gb. Also, FAT32 has no concept of file-level permissions or security, making it easier to work with.

-If you want to read MAC drives on a Windows PC, install a program such as MacDrive (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive)

-If you want to read NTFS drives on a Mac, OSX supports read but not write natively

-If you have both a Mac and a PC, you can simply network them together to copy files between them and avoid all this BS about file systems.

-If you have both a Mac and a PC, just use FCP (if you have it) and convert your AVCHD to Prores. Premiere Pro will read Prores just fine.

-If you don't have Cineform or FCP, you can transcode to AVC-Intra (built into Adobe Media Encoder).

The easiest thing to do is simply share a directory on one of your computers and copy files between them via the network. You can also use a 3rd computer as a dedicated server/media storage or buy a small NAS. All these will solve your interoperability problems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top