Hiding the Lav...

J

j1clark@ucsd.edu

Veteran
I don't have a lav, but on a shoot recently, some who does, had one and we used it. I recall reading some posts about creating a sort of 'bubble' so that the lav/clothing would not produce cloth scratch/rubbing sounds.

Is there some sort of 'tape' recommended for this use. Also, does one tape to 'skin' or to the 'dress' (in my recent case...).

The dress had a high collar which allowed me to place the lav close to the woman's mouth, and dress the cable around and back. It did not really have much access for anything else, unless she had it put on while she was dressing.
 
There are all sorts of adhesives that can come in handy. Moleskin, medical tape, top-stick...

There are other materials that are useful as well, and where the lav is adhered depends on the wardrobe and, sometimes, the actor/subject. To skin? Quite possibly, unless the person has a hairy chest. To the clothing? Also a possibility. Either way, the idea is to protect the capsule and to immobilize any fabric on either side of the capsule, or to keep fabric away from it altogether. With women, often the cleavage provides a perfect place to protect the capsule and adhere it to the skin. Collars can work, too.

There's a pretty comprehensive eBook called Down to the Wire that details lots of tools and techniques for burying lavs.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I recall reading some posts about creating a sort of 'bubble' so that the lav/clothing would not produce cloth scratch/rubbing sounds.
Click to expand...

This has been covered on this board in the not too distant past. Several interesting threads. You could also search the threads at JW Sound Group where there's some in depth discussion on how to mount a body mic, and how to avoid cable, handling, and clothing noise problems.

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
The dress had a high collar which allowed me to place the lav close to the woman's mouth...
Click to expand...

I'm thinking this isn't an ideal mount location. Lavs in general expect to be more or less boundry mics. That is, they expect to be blocked by the plane of the body, and their response curve should reflect this "reality" at least somewhat. Also, a normal lav expects to be mounted around 30cm below the mouth. That's about mid-chest, men and women.

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
It did not really have much access for anything else, unless she had it put on while she was dressing.
Click to expand...

One excellent location for females is clipped to the bra, mid chest. The so called "valley of good sound" is called that for a reason. The contours make for less danger of dragging clothing over the mic, and therefore less danger of clothing rustle and other handling noises. Would that men had a similar good place to hide a lav.
 
Bruce Watson said:
This has been covered on this board in the not too distant past. Several interesting threads. You could also search the threads at JW Sound Group where there's some in depth discussion on how to mount a body mic, and how to avoid cable, handling, and clothing noise problems.



I'm thinking this isn't an ideal mount location. Lavs in general expect to be more or less boundry mics. That is, they expect to be blocked by the plane of the body, and their response curve should reflect this "reality" at least somewhat. Also, a normal lav expects to be mounted around 30cm below the mouth. That's about mid-chest, men and women.



One excellent location for females is clipped to the bra, mid chest. The so called "valley of good sound" is called that for a reason. The contours make for less danger of dragging clothing over the mic, and therefore less danger of clothing rustle and other handling noises. Would that men had a similar good place to hide a lav.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointers both of you guys. This upcoming weekend I have another shoot with the woman in Edwardian costume again, so I'll suggest that lav be placed while they get dressed in a more 'favorable' spot...

As it is there's some noise due to the placement I had, so I'll have to deal with it.
 
It's pretty easy to stop clothing from rubbing against the mic using many different techniques.
What you tend to hear more than anything is clothing on clothing noise when it rubs up against each other.
The mic then picks that up.
If you can't dictate wardrobe (more sound friendly materials like cotton)
then what you want to do is tape down the clothing so it can't move over another layer.
I find joe's sticky stuff invaluable for this kind of thing, also good to have thinner double sided tape such as topstick.
 
There is a Udemy course (not free) that covers many aspects of the hidden mic (black art form) applications and accessories. Of course it's no substitute for experience., but worthwhile if you have a few extra bucks.
It was available to some audio pros for evaluation at first, hence my recommendation. Very well done and comprehensive.
 
Rick R said:
There is a Udemy course (not free) that covers many aspects of the hidden mic (black art form) applications and accessories. Of course it's no substitute for experience., but worthwhile if you have a few extra bucks.
It was available to some audio pros for evaluation at first, hence my recommendation. Very well done and comprehensive.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately I can't afford these online programs at the moment... the Wife has allocated our funds for an upcoming trip...

Anyway, we did a second shoot, and had the talent put the lavs in their clothing as they were dressing, and that improved things over my ad hoc solution of the previous shoot.

I'll see if I can go for one of those online deals later in the Fall.

Since I had to pretty much wing it for the first shoot, would a 'scratchy phono record filter' assist in reducing the clothing noise? The dress collar where I placed the lav was lace and tended to have sort of 'popping' noise rather than 'rubbing' noise.

There was 'popping' noise on the second shoot... but that was from veneer flooring... and could have been mitigated if we had had the talent wearing slippers, but unfortunately that shot was a full height shot...
 
"would a 'scratchy phono record filter' assist in reducing the clothing noise?"
> I really don't think so, at least not w/o severe artifacts, but you could try it. I would think iZotope's RX3, Sony's SpectralLayers or a similar spectral tool would be best. None would have a one-click process and would be labor intensive. Even then, it probably wouldn't be 'perfect'.

FWIW, I have Garfield's 'Hush Heels' in my 'bag of tricks' when clippity-clop shoes are a problem.
 
Rick R said:
There is a Udemy course (not free) that covers many aspects of the hidden mic (black art form) applications and accessories. Of course it's no substitute for experience., but worthwhile if you have a few extra bucks.
It was available to some audio pros for evaluation at first, hence my recommendation. Very well done and comprehensive.
Click to expand...

Searched for it. Couldn't find it. (searched all courses under "audio."). Thanks.
 
Handy tip, udemy has sales and coupons all the time. If you are willing to sign up for their mailings and keep your eyes open you should be able to get any course for a much better price.
 
I went to the udemy site, and I think I 'signed up' via facebook... so I'll take a look at the courses/prices/anydiscounts/etc.

I did a second shoot with the lavs, and did a better job on placement. Asked the actress to place the lav on her bra, and run the line around to the back of her costume. That seemed to work much better. The guy had a military uniform on, and the lave was good just near the front chest center.

For the next while though I think I'll stick to mics on booms.

As a side note... I really wish the writer/directrix had cut down the dialog to a bare minimum... but alas... but that's a different story than where to place mics, etc.
 
Udemy is current running a coupon, STRONG60, for 60% off any course good till Aug 31, 2014. I used it to pick up the "How To Put A Microphone On Talent" course. If anyone else was interested in getting it, 60% off isn't a bad discount. The coupon seems to work for more than one course too, so I picked up a few others. Now if I could just get 60% more time to watch all these courses.
 
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