hg10?
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vsansal
Well-known member
Click the link below to read the review
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HG10-Camcorder-Review-33146.htm
Still no camcorder is as good as HV20 in the same price range. It seems 24p mode is no good with the combination of AVCHD.
Stephen Eastwood
Member
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107463
there is no real difference in actual quality between this and the HV20 I have both and an XHA1 and XLH1 the hv20 is great for what it is, the hg10 is just as good at 24p smaller files and the format may be more of a problem for editors, I am using Vegas which works great, not sure of others, but the footage in the same conditions between this and the hv20 is near identical. check the link, several samples available, and several people ran tests to confirm themselves.
The real benifit f this camera is as an experimental tool, you will shoot more of nothing just because its free and can be deleted so you will just start to play and try things more.
there is no real difference in actual quality between this and the HV20 I have both and an XHA1 and XLH1 the hv20 is great for what it is, the hg10 is just as good at 24p smaller files and the format may be more of a problem for editors, I am using Vegas which works great, not sure of others, but the footage in the same conditions between this and the hv20 is near identical. check the link, several samples available, and several people ran tests to confirm themselves.
The real benifit f this camera is as an experimental tool, you will shoot more of nothing just because its free and can be deleted so you will just start to play and try things more.
vsansal
Well-known member
At least one of the tests you are talking about is not a real performance test. The test is conducted by using a Black Magic HD extreme card which totally bypasses the compression. The HV20 and HG10 is identical in technical specs. So if you bypass the compression there is no surprise that you will get identical results. The AVCHD compression with 15Mbps cannot keep up with 25Mbps HDV compression. And the 24p mode creates problems. For the price difference between two camcorders you can buy a lot of tapes to shoot nothing and if you like it you can even use the tape to archive it. So I think HV20 is a much more better camcorder overall.
Stephen Eastwood
Member
Since I shot the footage I think I would know if my tests were bypassing the compression, they were not. And looking at 24p at 48th and 24th of moving trees, blowing leaves, fast/slow pans there is no major difference, on a frame by frame comparison there is virtually no difference with some differences good and bad on each camera based on frame and obvious compression issues, but neither was a hard and fast win. Overall, the hg10 has a better compression format but is heavier on compression which pretty much made the difference in quality of algorithm null. If you could get the algorithm up to say 25 I think it would be better than the HDV standard without question. The main drawback I have with the hg10 is that I cannot backup on a firestore, and the lack of a tape archive, blueray archives are fine but risky since it may be replaced at anytime really leaving you with a bunch of blueray discs to re-archive to another format. I would love it if the hg10 had a firewire in/out.
Barry_Green
Moderator
15mbps AVC-HD shouldn't be able to keep up with 25mbps HDV -- it should surpass it. Noticeably.
vsansal
Well-known member
Barry, I hate to argue with you but you are talking about in theory. In real life it is not the case so far. The tests show HDV camcorders (with 25Mbps) perform better than AVCHD (with 15Mbps) camcorders. If this changes in the future then I won't oppose to it but for now I don't think your claim is accurate.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
All I'm gonna say is -- consider the source. You're posting links from camcorderinfo, fer cryin' out loud! 
Properly implemented, and properly tested, by individuals who know how to get the best results, the 15mbps AVC-HD should prove significantly better/cleaner/sharper than 25mbps of HDV.
They've posted some pretty unsubstantiated stuff before, including complaints that the 24p of the HG10 was ghosting, whereas the 24p of the HV20 wasn't. Nonsense, and Les Dit over at DVInfo went through a big ol' thread to prove that it was absolute nonsense.
Properly implemented, and properly tested, by individuals who know how to get the best results, the 15mbps AVC-HD should prove significantly better/cleaner/sharper than 25mbps of HDV.
They've posted some pretty unsubstantiated stuff before, including complaints that the 24p of the HG10 was ghosting, whereas the 24p of the HV20 wasn't. Nonsense, and Les Dit over at DVInfo went through a big ol' thread to prove that it was absolute nonsense.