Here's your shot to convert me (HVX or no)

KyleProhaska

KyleProhaska

Veteran
Ok I figured Ide just throw all my problems into one thread instead of hunting around in different parts of dvxuser blah blah blah. I am almost dead set on getting the Canon A1, my reason....price. I have never done anything in HD before and know that HD would really help out my product options for clients. Another reason im going HD, I need a different camera. I have had an XL2 for a month and half and think it was a grave mistake. Basically if im going to sell the XL2 and have $3000 on hand, why not go HD when the A1 is staring me in the face at $3600?

Then there has been the HVX & P2 that ive drooled over for quite a while now. If I could afford it ide go at it in a heartbeat. Even though I can't at the moment, ide love some more convincing to save for one. I have a couple issues im not sure how I would work out. Here they are:

Info: I have $4000 total as of right now

1) I have no laptop
2) I'm $1100 short, lol.

Thats it! Basically my problem with P2 is after the HVX and even if I got it before the rebate is over....I have no way to unload the footage. Maybe I do for when im at home (my MacPro + a card reader would be cheap and fine) but when im elseware, what do I do? Its almost a requirement to have a laptop if you want to use P2 anywhere than at home.

What about tapeless HD recording? I hear there are problems with the frame rates and the HVX and some other things. What would be the best choice in your guys opinions? If I get rid of the XL2 I then have no camera to make alot of money to save for the HVX faster also so im without a camera until then.... I have a job but it will take longer (possibly past the rebate date more than likely) for me to get the camera.

Whats your guys take on this and what do you suggest I do? I have $4000 to start, no lappy, I might not beat the rebate date, and ill have no camera to save faster until the new one is purchased. Pretty crappy situation wouldn't you say? So whats your guys take? A1 now and get going, or HVX later and have the other possibilities?

What I want to Shoot:

All purpose shooting if possible, weddings, birthdays, films, documentary if I want, pretty much an all around camera.

Convince me,

- Kyle
 
first of all: why don´t you keep the XL2? Do you have need for HD(V)? if not, then make money with the XL2.
the Canon A1 is a sweet camera for sure. But it is HDV on tape. how will you play it into the editor? how will you deliver to the clients? who are your clients?

the HVX is sweet, but P2 is a new beast. you won´t need a laptop if you have enough P2 space and upload to FCP via cables. what is your shooting style? how much P2 space do you need before you get back to your Mac? do you need variable framerates?

those are the questions no one can answer but you. once that is done you will probably have made the decision already. but one thing is sure IMO: if you are 1.100 short for the camera, you will be much shorter once you get into the P2 workflow (P2 cards, harddrives, redundant RAID etc)
 
Im getting rid of my XL2 because its a terrible form factor I find hard to use for my all purpose needs. The A1 or HVX is a solid body camera that I can do much more with than a camera I feel im going to break when I pick it up. Its a great image from the XL2, that much is certain. If I get rid of the XL2, even if its not a specific need persay, I would make money with SD video (and more than likely current distribution is DVD anyways) the HD video is something I personally would love to have the option for as well as for clients. Maybe the A1 is the right choice because the price is right?

Your right about the P2 thing though, I just dont think ide have enough P2 cards for all my footage. Maybe I will but its the thought of running out of space that annoys me ;) For a wedding I would probably shoot on tape with the DVCPro50 or on P2 with DVCPro50 for more footage to squeeze in. Idk maybe the 8GB card, plus another 4GB when I can afford it is a worthy amount of space to start? I think its just the fear of not having enough that bothers me.

- Kyle
 
KyleProhaska said:
<snip>For a wedding I would probably shoot on tape with the DVCPro50 or on P2 with DVCPro50 for more footage to squeeze in.<snip>
Click to expand...

Not sure if that was a typo, but if not please note that the HVX only shoots DV25 to tape. DVCPRO50 is P2 only.

Also, there's really no debate between these cameras. For practical purposes its fruits or vegetables. If you're going to do weddings or long form event videography the XH A1 is the way to go. If you're going to do Film style work the HVX is the way to go.

If you need to do both styles of work, then each cam is going to compromise somewhere. Using the HVX on longform projects means either DV25 to tape OR toss a $2,000 firestore into the deal (that puts the HVX at litterally about double the price of the XH A1). Using the XH A1 on film work means giving up the variable frame rates and the 4:2:2 color space (color space may or may not be an issue depending on the user). Now granted, at least you can work with 30F and 60i in post and get some fair slow-mo shots, but its a workaround and certainly not as desirable as setting the frame rates in-camera.

I was in your shoes and went with the XH A1. Fantastic image, cheap storage media, 24P. If I had 7K, I'd have gotten the HVX. I had 3.5K, so XH A1 it was. Its basically the poor man's movie cam.
 
Yea I meant 25 not 50, sorry about that. Yea it seems like the HVX is going to be more trouble than its worth :/ Weddings aren't my main thing, just something I want to do, ide like to. I got a quote from Roscor Video (supposebly good) and got $3538 for the A1. That practically sold me, I think im going A1. After HVX, P2, a new tripod that I think I might need, laptop sooner or later, bah its alot of dough. I think ill just get the A1, I have no regrets and besides variable frames rates are new to filmmakers in this price range so ill just have to do it the way they have for years previous ;) I think ill be just fine.

- Kyle
 
Why don't you give a read to the extensive comparison of these two cameras that Barry just wrote up. It's in the articles section. If anything will help you make your decision, it should be that. Just give it a read.

later,
Jason
 
Yup, the HVX will be a bigger investment for sure.
But look at your last investment. :(

The biggest reason for us going HVX was I can take on most ANY job in the market. We are now doing more DV shoots then I thought were available in this market after being a BETA house only.
Yesterday I picked up a job that HAD to be shot in 720. But that client wants a shoot later in 1080. Guess what, that client likes having us for ALL his needs.

Being an independent, I can't afford to have multiple cameras sitting around. But I also can't afford to pass up jobs because I can't shoot flavor X, Y or Z.
With the HVX I can shoot most any job in this market. What other camera can give you that option?

But that's just me. Being an Eagle Scout I feel the need to be PREPARED. With the HVX I am prepared to take ANY AND ALL MONEY in this market.

Do what you gotta do, but I'd say save a little more or get a loan or credit card and go with the most versatile camera around. The HVX-200. You'll be able to take on more jobs for sure.
 
The A1 is an awesome camera but I would tell you to save and get the HVX a laptop and a a cineporter when they come out or a Firestore for your long form stuff. Why settle for something now when you could get something that does what the A1 does and a ton more if you save a while longer? Just a thought. Barry says it well in his article about these two cams:
"If you don’t mind sacrificing 720p mode, variable frame rates, tapeless P2 workflow, uncompressed audio, 4 channels of audio, physical manual zoom, repeatable focus, the ability to zoom and focus at the same time, the ability to use the onboard mic at the same time as using an XLR mic, the ability to see peaking and zebras at the same time, 4:2:2, DVCPRO50, frame-discrete compression, Panasonic's color and CineGamma and all that, then the XHA1 would be a fine product for you. Especially if you need the extra zoom reach its 20x lens provides, or you need to record long-form events to a $5 tape."

If you are doing mostly event things in HD, I would say the A1 will rock, but if you want to do movies in the future, I would say hold off and save for the HVX. Just my two cents and I absolutely love my HVX. it is worth every penny.....and those were a lot of pennies.
 
Want my advice?

Go to a rental house and rent the A1 and HVX on a Friday night, that way you get the entire weekend free.

Shoot simulatneously, have all sorts of fun and look at the footage YOU CREATE with either.

Then settle up with your inner-villain and see which one wins. Don't rely on someone else to sway you to this side or that; you do enough of that internally when deciding whether to eat pizza or hamburgers to handle it on your own. Not that asking advice is bad, i'd say do this to be sure of yourself.
Good luck.
 
I agree with Kholi, wise advice.

When i saw some A1 footage, i first thought that it was superior to the HVX.

..but i'm not sure anymore... to be honest...

IMHO, the A1 has a slight resolution advantage, but the HVX can produce images that look so rich, so pleasing to the eyes...despite its problems.
I'm not talking about color saturation, i refer to the richness of the colors IN the shadows. Its image signature is unmistakable.

But that's just my own subjective opinion...

Follow Kholi's advice.
 
Exactly. And consider everything else the cameras do, and decide if the extra features are worth the extra cost. There's more to these cameras than just the raw footage, there's workflow and audio and flexibility; if you rely on someone else's opinion you'll find out what's right for THEM, but not necessarily for YOU.
 
And they sure as hell aren't going to buy you that other camera you could've had or wanted when you find out the one you bought wasn't right for you. If money is an issue with renting, try to work out some deal.

In the end, spending 300 for the weekend to rent both and do your own observations will be worth the money. Once you spend that 3500 or 4k+, you've gotten into big money that's a hassel to get back; if at all possible to recover without selling used and for less than you purchased.
 
Again...good advice.

Not that i want to push the HVX, but i can confess this:

Each time i use this little camera, the images are beautifull, each time.
The commercials i have made with the HVX, including a national 60 sec. for a major Broadcast Network, look like if they have been shot 16 mm or even S16.

Each time, it is a real experience, like if i was a cinema expert.

I never ask myself "can i do that ? " ...i can do that and so much more, it is extremely flexible and friendly.

Like ANY camera, you have to test ans test,...and test again, to fully understand its limitations and its strenghts.

I've used big shoulder cameras, small cameras.
The HVX is reasonnably lightweight, reasonnably small, extremely easy to manipulate in almost all situation.

P2 ? at first, i hated it.
I use 2 8G, and now, after almost one year of use, i just trust it 100%, and i like this concept and workflow a lot.

When i'll receive my RED camera, i'll keep my HVX. I love this little professional camera.
 
I remember my DVX100b days, called up the local tv station (CBS) to submit a client's commercial, the eng asked "so what format are you turning in ? Betacam ? or DVCPRO ?". I said "errr.. no, its DV". The guy went "oh DVCAM ??" I said "errrrrrrrr... no mini DV". :(

Now I can say it loud and proud "DVCPRO50, Sir". The Hvx is a pro tool for sure. GO FOR IT KYLE !
 
You'll need something like 7000 to get a viable workflow. And don't forget hard disks for archiving. I suggest IOMEGA REV disks for master backup. Have started an archiving solution with the disks, for 2 months. So far so good. Each disk as a 70 gb capacity.

you need the hvx plus p2- 5100 USD

Laptop or home computer- 1000 or plus

Editing software- 1000

Archiving solution- 700?

A bit over what I stated, but you caqn get a solution for 7000. As for the A1, extract the archiving solution.
 
Alright you guys are killin me lol. Heres the whole truth:

I own a MacPro (2 months old or so) 2.66ghz, 1GB RAM, X1900XT - $3100
XL2 (I have a buyer hopefully paying me soon) - $2950

What do you say to ditching the MacPro (im gonna cry) and getting the MBP 17in? It wont last as long but that solves my laptop problem and ill still have a powerful mac. It wont be a macpro though :(.

Jobs in progress:

$1000 dollar website job (in progress)
$150 website job (pending)
$150 template to sell (deal sealed and payment sent)

Savings: $400

Total: $7750

The XL2 is up for sale and I haven't heard back from the guy from here who said he might buy it so im getting worried. I dont have a decent tripod except an older Bogen that works ok, and no other mics to use. It would be sooooo damn hard to get rid of my MacPro after using it for a while. If I get the HVX it will take a while to get the P2 card in the mail (months probably). I have to sell the MacPro, XL2 and finish the small jobs I have going (and the big one where the client is a slow ass man who can't get his **** right and it takes forever just to do the homepage). I'm just worried here :/ I'm giving up my dream machine to get a camera when I could get the A1, keep my dream machine, get a mic and probably a new tripod, have HDV but have all the other stuff. Idk this is really hard but knowing I could have $7800 (IF im lucky enough to have it in time) and spending it on ONLY an HVX and MBP is pretty hard.

This is tough guys, if someone would buy my damn XL2 thats the first step but so far its bubkiss on dvinfo, dvcreators, here, or craigslist. If this guy would just contact me like he said he would I probably wouldn't be so stressed.

I also might barely make it to $5000 by March 31st if I stretch it a bit. That means I might NOT have to get rid of my MacPro. Sure I wont have a laptop but for waht I do most of the time for now, the 8GB might just be something ill have to deal with for a bit until I get another one. Might be the best option since ide keep my desktop.

Kind of work ide like to do:

weddings, shorts, other. Ide like an all around camera and I know the A1 could give it to me but ide be stuck with tape which I dont mind. I'm just wondering if spending ALLL that money for just the camera and computer is worth it at all.

NOTE: I also have a $5000 loan im paying off right now at 115 a month so another loan can't happen. I make 650 a month after taxes (originally 800) and hopefully it will get increased soon here.

- Kyle
 
Last edited:
dont forget all the problems with editing hdv, from what ive read you need a pretty powerful computer to render the compression scheme and extra time. editing dvc pro hd is a dream. especially 24 p native.
 
Get a loan to buy the HVX

Get a loan to buy the HVX

Sell whatever you can, and finance the difference of the cost of an HVX system. I am assuming this is a business type decision for you.[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]HVX is great but it might be a little costly for you. There is alot of accessories you need to consider than just the camera. Batteries, light, P2s or FS-100, laptop with PCMIA card reader, better monitor, xlr mic, larger harddrive storage.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Well I am only a hobbyist and August 2006 I got me the HVX with 2 4gig P2 from BH Photo for $6400. I planned on editing with my Adobe Production Bundle, but lo and behold Adobe does not support MXF files (file type for Panasonics DVCPro HD). So I was on the fence between Raylight and Cineform AspectHD (MXF to AVI2 converter). Well I heldoff shooting in HD untill Serious Magic came out with DV Rack HD. Which I got for couple hundred $$s. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Anyways here is what I got:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]HVX200 w/2 4Gig P2s ; $6400 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]DV Rack 2 HD; $499 now was $700 + when I got it[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Focus FS-100; $1899.95 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Aztec Wireless system; $679[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Extra Battery;$79[/SIZE]

I have not included the misc stuff like wires, and also the shipping to Hawaii is/was kinda costly. Too lazy right now to go do the accounting stuff but with all that I spent, you would expect that I would somehow make money with it. [SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Again I am only a hobbyist that has been blessed to have this setup. I got alot of redundant recording devices, because I wanted to be complete in all shooting situations.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top