Help with HVX decision, and solving some creative issues...

John Rivers

John Rivers

Active member
Hey everyone,

Haven't posted in awhile, work has been taking over my life slowly.

So I feel I'm in a bit of a bind. I've owned an HVX for nearly a year now. I love P2 and how I can just choose my clips ahead of time with FCP, and the whole tapeless workflow is just awesome.

However, I've only used my camera a grand total of 3 times. No joke. I know...it's sad.

I used to film constantly when I would make random shorts on my older MiniDV/Hi-8 sets, and when I was debating on whether to buy a DVX or an HVX, I was allured by the HD, P2, and overall more "futureproof" route the HVX seemed to offer.

However, reality has shown me the immense costs behind actually utilizing the P2 workflow ($1500+ for the external HD field capture device!? $1200 for an 8GB P2 card!?). Furthermore, the low-light capabilities, while excellent compared to much of the competition in this camera genre, don't seem to be quite as good compared to the DVX, forcing me to use lighting kits whenever possible (I know this is VERY common in ANY professional filming situation, yet it adds further time and cost to produce a basic short, and since I am not in the financial position to have a crew or even rent lighting as often as I would like to shoot, it's not ideal).

In summary, I feel my "filmmaker" side being smothered underneath these costs and the time it takes to set up each shot, when I just want to move faster and spend less than my current situation would allow...kinda sucks (you can tell this has been eating at me for awhile now).

So, I'm debating on selling my HVX for the time being and instead going with a DVX and maybe some filters or other equipment I might make more use out of, both now and longterm. Yet I have no clue if this would solve my issues, or if I would just be making a stupid decision.

If anybody can offer ANY advice as far as my issues go, please let me know. My "creative" side is kinda floundering lately, and it's been getting to me, but I trust this community a whole lot, and any comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.
 
John, it's really up to you to decide what you want to do . . .

The HVX is a fantastic camera, I think you're giving up too easily.

I know when I got my HVX, the first thing I wanted to do was shoot "Film Look", SloMo, Ttimelapse etc etc when really, I should have learned how to walk before I tried to run.

First, I suggest you get out there and shoot loads of footage onto P2 - that's the way to learn about this complex camera. If you've only used it three times, you haven't even scratched the surface of its capabilities.

Forget all the scene files and fancy film settings (for now) just use the camera, and as your skill and confidence grow, so you'll begin to love it.

The other thing to learn, is to be REALLY economical with your footage - set the shots up really thoroughly and be ruthless when it comes to deleting unwanted clips. You'll be surprised how economical you can be if you really try.

The HVX200 is an incredible camera - but it does have a learning curve. I changed from Sony Z1 which I could use in the dark and I admit, I foud the HVX daunting at first. My hard drives were very soon filled to bursting, so then I had to start weeding out the rubbish! Once I'd done that, I started to get along better with the camera - only hitting the "Record" button if I was really sure.

The biggest improvement I feel Panny could make with the HVX is to have a "Delete Last Clip" button (or preferably a combination of two for safety).

The HVXs Low Light capability came as something of a shock to me after the Z1 but I've learned to live with it. Just look at some of the low light footage that's posted on this site - it's awesome! If they can do it, so can you (once you've learned how).

My advice to you is Hang On In There!

Andy
 
John, you already got a DVX- The HVX can record to mini dv!

Anyway, if the problem is low light, try up the gain to +3, and you're in DVX territory. Also, You get a 16/9 DVX with the HVX. DOn't do it!

Now, if you were thinking, for example, on a Canon A1... Maybe that'll suit you best.

But if you have patience, and give the camera a chance, you'll get results only the HVX can get at this price range.

Some low light suggestions:

Use shutter at 25/ or 24, in NTSC.

Gain +3 (don't go over or you're getting into Noisefest)

If you want to control the noise, put the detail coring up.

Shoot 1080p, then downrez to 720p- some noise is lost in the process, so you can crank up the gain a bit (not recommended, tough)

As for P2 low capacity... Buy a Firestore, and sell your P2. Firestore can practically do everything P2 can do nowadays, and its proven to be reliable.

But if all this is still a hassle, do go for the Canon A1. Its a nice camera, and with knowledge and skill can get to HVX level. Its certainly capable of broadcast quality HD.
 
Our team shoots over 50% of our projects to mini dv. This camera shoots a beautiful sd / HD, great flexibility. We actually purchased exclusively for HD and found the SD so good. We are waiting for the Cineporter for our Documentary workflow. The HVX works for us.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm going to keep truckin' along with the HVX.

I'd be interested to hear more about improving the low-light capability to that/nearly-that of the DVX (myself and other members, no less).

I had read a loooong time ago about upping the Gain, but then I heard contrary information, and it doesn't seem like there is a clear stance on this. My expectations aren't so high that I expect beyond-DVX picture quality with DVX-level low light capability, but if there are some defined settings/tricks to getting at least a copy of the DVX's SD picture with this camera, that would be awesome.

As for capturing in the field, what is probably my best bet? My Powerbook died awhile back and my replacement MB Pro doesn't have PCMCIA. I also don't feel like paying $1500 for the external P2 capture device Panasonic makes. Is Firestore a good way to go?

=)
 
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John, does your MBP have Firewire Input?
I capture using Firewire all the time from my HVX to the Mac G5 - and I've never had a single failure or hitch. (Straight into Final Cut Pro).

I never need to remove the P2s from the camera either - that can't be a bad thing.

Andy

(Edit: Sorry - just realised you said "in the field" - no, I don't tote my G5 around in the field)!
 
John Rivers said:
As for capturing in the field, what is probably my best bet? My Powerbook died awhile back and my replacement MB Pro doesn't have PCMCIA. I also don't feel like paying $1500 for the external P2 capture device Panasonic makes. Is Firestore a good way to go?

=)
Click to expand...

they make an adapter for the macbook pro now that allows you to have PCMCIA function now. just came out like a week ago.
 
John Rivers said:
Thanks for all the replies, I think I'm going to keep truckin' along with the HVX.

I'd be interested to hear more about improving the low-light capability to that/nearly-that of the DVX (myself and other members, no less). [
Click to expand...
How about actually lighting?

John Rivers said:
As for capturing in the field, what is probably my best bet? My Powerbook died awhile back and my replacement MB Pro doesn't have PCMCIA. I also don't feel like paying $1500 for the external P2 capture device Panasonic makes. Is Firestore a good way to go?

=)
Click to expand...

You can also do that 1394 host thing for dumping directly to an HDD. I have not done it, but Timur's done it a bunch and says it works flawlessly. I am going to test it a bunch this weekend.
 
andynick said:
John, does your MBP have Firewire Input?
I capture using Firewire all the time from my HVX to the Mac G5 - and I've never had a single failure or hitch. (Straight into Final Cut Pro).

I never need to remove the P2s from the camera either - that can't be a bad thing.

Andy

(Edit: Sorry - just realised you said "in the field" - no, I don't tote my G5 around in the field)!
Click to expand...

Actually, I have tried to do this before with my MB Pro, but I ran into several issues which maybe you know how to fix?

In FCP you can't capture any of the PN modes (I'm pretty sure). Yet when I tried capturing some footage at 720p30, I kept getting dropped and still frames left and right, and the audio would get completely out of sync (and unfortunately, it wasn't by a set amount which I could fix, but it would slowly drift over time, which pretty much botched everything.) What are your settings? I know FCP like the back of my hand, so if you could let me know what specific settings you use, that would be excellent. :)

FilmBoy77 said:
they make an adapter for the macbook pro now that allows you to have PCMCIA function now. just came out like a week ago.
Click to expand...

REALLY!? Could you provide a link or something, that would be awesome!

EDIT: http://www.duel-systemsadapters.com/?gclid=CPSw-JeLjIsCFR8ZIwodMS0BSA

This is the one, right?

Mark Harris said:
How about actually lighting?
Click to expand...

I would (and when I have used my HVX for a few projects, I have), except that a lack of knowledgeable crew, in addition to having to manage the camera itself and repositioning it every shot, and then making sure my cast knows what to do next, really really slows down production time. When those involved are largely working with me for their own interest without pay, the longer a project takes, the least likely they want to work on another since everybody is busy with jobs and other stupid stuff like that. =)
 
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Mark Harris said:
How about actually lighting?



You can also do that 1394 host thing for dumping directly to an HDD. I have not done it, but Timur's done it a bunch and says it works flawlessly. I am going to test it a bunch this weekend.
Click to expand...


Yea it works GREAT. but it takes 15 min, wihtout verification for 2 8 gigers.

Also, since you talking "future proofing", just shoot HVX DV now, sell the p2 card whiel its still worth more than 800$ (in may the 16 gig is gonna come outand the 8 gig will be worh alot less) and use it as is till you can afford the other accesories.
 
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