7D HELP: Flickering Buildings and on the Water

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etrust

Well-known member
Hi Guys,

I was the first time on a beach with the 7D. I used a 17-55mm + ND Filter + Circ Pol Filter. I shot at 1280, 50 fps and 100 shutter speed.

The buildings are flickering / Lines and the other on some places too.. You can see in the water a big line flickering.

What the hell is this? And how to solve it? You should see in HD and Fullscreen to see the problem..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7h9NJ_99vs
 
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This just looks like typical Canon DSLR aliasing to me.
Its not something thta can particularly be solved...its a fact of the camera you use and how it obtains the HD image from the sensor.
Panasonic GH cameras exhibit alot less aliasing and moire especially on wide deep DOF shots such as the one you posted.
 
etrust said:
Hi Guys,

I was the first time on a beach with the 7D. I used a 17-55mm + ND Filter + Circ Pol Filter. I shot at 1280, 50 fps and 100 shutter speed.

The buildings are flickering / Lines and the other on some places too.. You can see in the water a big line flickering.

What the hell is this? And how to solve it? You should see in HD and Fullscreen to see the problem..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7h9NJ_99vs
Click to expand...


DO NOT SHOOT AT 1280x720 !! I REPEAT DO NOT SHOOT AT 1280x720 !! SHOOT AT 1920x1080......

You're Welcome
 
here we are, once again with the dreaded canon aliasing/moire issue.

its a "feature" of the sensor canon uses. shoot 1080 instead of 720 and it will get better.

Panasonic GH cameras exhibit alot less aliasing and moire especially on wide deep DOF shots such as the one you posted.
Click to expand...
yup. that is true. (except it's "a lot". not "alot")

the sad reality of HDSLRs is that every one of them (at any price) comes with a different set of pretty fundamental compromises relative to dedicated video cameras. yes, the same can be said for video cameras. but ive yet to encounter a situation with my trusty hpx170 that i have to change the frame rate or resolution to resolve...
 
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Boncrek said:
Panasonic GH cameras exhibit alot less aliasing and moire especially on wide deep DOF shots such as the one you posted.
Click to expand...

Not sure this comment is even relevant here. The OP is asking a question in relation to the 7D, if you have an answer as to how this can be improved on the 7D Im sure the OP will be grateful. Lets keep on topic.
 
wgzn said:
the sad reality of HDSLRs is that every one of them (at any price) comes with a different set of pretty fundamental compromises relative to dedicated video cameras. yes, the same can be said for video cameras. but ive yet to encounter a situation with my trusty hpx170 that i have to change the frame rate or resolution to resolve...
Click to expand...



Hpx-170 with p2 cards you are looking at $4000 easily..... These Dslrs can be bought from $500 (t2i,gh1) So while yes technically No One is denying that dedicated cameras do not have to deal with such problems, you must understand the reason we all do is simply the price point of these dslrs.

For shooting on the streets and in many areas with no permits having a Dslr is priceless.....

Dslrs with these video capabilities are still in their infant stages and I'm more than sure will only improve in the future :)
 
vision_filmz said:
DO NOT SHOOT AT 1280x720 !! I REPEAT DO NOT SHOOT AT 1280x720 !! SHOOT AT 1920x1080......

You're Welcome
Click to expand...

+1. That's the classic moire/aliasing effect caused by skipping lines on the sensor during recording. You opted to record at 720p instead of 1080p. Setting the resolution lower means skipping MORE lines, and making what might have been a more subtle problem into a serious one. Drop down to SD (640x480), and your footage can be totally ruined!
 
Noel Evans said:
Not sure this comment is even relevant here. The OP is asking a question in relation to the 7D, if you have an answer as to how this can be improved on the 7D Im sure the OP will be grateful. Lets keep on topic.
Click to expand...

Oh my bad.
The OP asked what he could do about the aliasing and I remarked that it was the camera itself and so suggested an alternate camera with less of this problem.
Sorry if it wasnt clear or appropriate.
 
Not sure this comment is even relevant here. The OP is asking a question in relation to the 7D, if you have an answer as to how this can be improved on the 7D Im sure the OP will be grateful. Lets keep on topic.
Click to expand...
all things considered, it may very well be RIGHT ON TARGET. if you have to shoot landscapes and have to (for whatever reason) shoot 720. then getting a GH2 might be a reasonable solution.
 
Hi guys :(

I do not know why I shot at 720p. Is there other settings on the 7d I should check than set to 1080??

Is there no way to get a nice quality for landscape or my example footage using a 7d?? Until yesterday I was very happy with my 7D :(
 
etrust said:
Hi guys :(

I do not know why I shot at 720p. Is there other settings on the 7d I should check than set to 1080??

Is there no way to get a nice quality for landscape or my example footage using a 7d?? Until yesterday I was very happy with my 7D :(
Click to expand...

Shoot 1080p and your problem will be no more.....
 
vision_filmz said:
Shoot 1080p and your problem will be no more.....
Click to expand...

it's not going to go away at all: it will be a much smaller problem, but it will still be there; it's true, though, that this goes more than half way in solving the issue

other things to do: put the camera on sticks (movement makes that moire/aliasing stand out even more), use selective focus (shallow DoF, to put problematic areas out of focus), avoid subjects that are too problematic
 
NormanBates said:
it's not going to go away at all: it will be a much smaller problem, but it will still be there; it's true, though, that this goes more than half way in solving the issue

other things to do: put the camera on sticks (movement makes that moire/aliasing stand out even more), use selective focus (shallow DoF, to put problematic areas out of focus), avoid subjects that are too problematic
Click to expand...


Hi Guys,

I tried today again. Shooting at 1080 is much better, but like he said the problem is still there. I need to move the cam and there will be problematic area like big buildings near the sea.

I just asking me if there is:

1) More tricks 7 Setings?
2) Plug in that correct this F*** Effect?
 
etrust said:
Hi Guys,

I tried today again. Shooting at 1080 is much better, but like he said the problem is still there. I need to move the cam and there will be problematic area like big buildings near the sea.

I just asking me if there is:

1) More tricks 7 Setings?
2) Plug in that correct this F*** Effect?
Click to expand...



Try different lenses, this helps a lot.


Also make sure you turn sharpness and contrast (Neutral setting adjustments) all the way down in your camera settings, this also eliminates almost everything.
 
Hi Cyfernoa, thank you but a new cam do not solve my problem :=(

I heard that also putting the sharpness down it should also help.. now searching a Plugin for this F*** Effect (DSLR Moire / Aliasing) :(
 
No, you are not going to find a simple plugin to get rid of aliasing/moire because it is content specific, and as you have seen, 720P mode is HORRIBLE with aliasing, we do not shoot in 720P ever now. The quality is just horrendous. I own a 7D and have used it quite a bit, and the suggestions here have been very good with regards to what you can do to hide the issue. Sharpening makes the aliasing pop out more, but remember, even if you don't try and sharpen more in camera and then try and do it in post it's still going to happen because it's already a part of what the sensor has recorded.

And don't be fooled by anyone telling you the GH2 will solve your problems, because it too has issues with high spatial detail. The difference between the two is night and day, don't get me wrong, because the 7D has chroma aliasing (red/blue) that happen much easier at lower spatial frequencies, but, the GH2 does NOT like closely grouped angled lines, and with shots like this with so many buildings in the distance, you are more than likely going to get aliasing/moire with the GH2 as well. I did tests with the GH2 in a neighborhood and when I was filming an AC unit on the side of someones house, the air fins on the side aliased really badly. Not pretty.

For chroma aliasing, it is common to use a mask over a particular area and try and remove those colors out specifically, and there are some plugins for that out there, I have seen them and they work well. What they will not do is help you for the luma aliasing, which you had in that video, which is what the GH2 will do as well.

You're only solution is to shoot with less sharp settings, or, shoot a tiny bit out of focus to see what you get. You could also possibly use something like the Caprock filters, but they are SO dependent on your focal length, I wouldn't even know which to suggest. This is just one of the things we all deal with on DSLR cameras at the moment, from every manufacturer.
 
Hi Rick and Guys. WOW. This is really bad :=(

So I will have to live with this problem and try the only few tricks (sharpness, Focus) we have :=(

I will search a Plugin for Vegas. Ideas are welcome. My pain is know bigger. I do'nt want to buy a new cam...crying..
 
It's not always that bad, I have shot hundreds of hours of footage on my 7D and I know where it shines and where it doesn't. Wide deep focus shots are not great for any DSLR I've seen, period. Unfortunately, you've found this out as well. This is part of what people work around, or in some cases, use different cameras when they need wide/deep. On my wide shots, I try not to move the camera at all and lock it down, this way, while aliasing might be present, it's not dancing around like you see. Also, I try to avoid wide urban shots. I was doing a really wide shoot for an old mill that was made all of brick. I did about 15 different angles and about 12 of them were unusable because of the aliasing. The worst part, you cannot see the aliasing in the camera, you have to use an external display and a 1:1 on that display to see it.
 
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