Hello! First videography camera? C100/FS100

N

nathanjrb

Active member
Hi.. I'm new to the forum, so hello!

I've been getting steadily into filmmaking the past couple of years and I feel I'm now ready to start my own freelance service for weddings, corporate gigs and various events.

Up until this time I have been very fortunate to work in a place surrounded by great equipment. I have experience shooting on the Panasonic AF101, AG-AC90, 5Dmkii/iii and Panasonic GH2. The time has come though that I really need to get my own camera and that's where I could really use your help.

I'm looking for a great starter camera for this kind of work. I have read great things about the C100 and NEX-FS100, both of which appear to have pros and cons. I really enjoyed shooting on the 5D, loved the sensor compared to the AF101. Ultimately I guess it comes down to my own choice? I love the slo-mo on the FS100 but in reality I question whether I'd actually use it.

If anyone can provide any first hand experience with either camera, I'd really appreciate it. Totally open to other camera suggestions!

Thanks,

Nath

ps my keyboard and mouse are having a 'mare typing on this forum for some reason?!?!
 
Last edited:
I own a FS100, Id probably get a C100! (its a far newer camera)

The FS100 gets you space for a speedbooster - great - and 60P great.

But the onboard ND of the C100 kind of beat both of those things for practical shooting.

S
 
I did love the AF101... but I really struggled to achieve the dof that I could get on the 5D. I'd like a larger sensor this time around and to try something different.
 
morgan_moore said:
I own a FS100, Id probably get a C100! (its a far newer camera)

The FS100 gets you space for a speedbooster - great - and 60P great.

But the onboard ND of the C100 kind of beat both of those things for practical shooting.

S
Click to expand...

Interesting! But they say the grass is always greener! Could always fit a variable ND filter? Not too bad.
 
The FS100 is a very sensitive camera, shooting in the sun you can end up with maybe a 2stop solid and a VND and at F16 - this adds up to a very muzzy image in the wrong situations. Front ND is bad news.

I bought a 1/64 solid from B+W - that is working out OK. I also bought a matte box which is a total pain to set up - really Ive been through it with the FS100.

I own the FS100 and have shot FS700 and C100 too and consider lack of ND a major Pain.

I think the FS700 is the best budget S35 camera personally... worth saving up the difference over the C100.

S
 
Yep one apprears to have a lens the other not. Very unclear.

Top is "[h=1]Sony NEX-FS700EK (FS700) 4K Ready Super 35mm Camcorder with Lens"[/h]
The other is
[h=1]Sony NEX-FS700R (NEXFS700R) 4K Super 35mm Exmor CMOS sensor NXCAM camcorder with E-Mount lens system and 4K/2K RAW recording options[/h]
 
Makes sense, but yes - very unclear! I find loads of typos and mistakes all over their website quite often.

So the FS700 seems like a good way forward (budget permitting). I've read that the Canons produce a better image for colour grading? Can you shed any light on that?
 
The FS700 has a 8bit 23bms onboard codec - that is fairly weak - but the C100 also has a pretty weak 8bit codec, maybe it is 10% better than the FS700.

IMO don't believe the hype that recording the 8bit out of the C100 offers any improvement - IMO it does not the image is still 'thin' to grade.

IF however you get more money over time you can save up you can buy an Odyssey 7q monitor/recorder for the 700 and record either raw (totally awesome) or 10bit 422 - very very good.

Also the recorder may allow 4k 422 in the future.

That is the thing with the FS700 it has an upgrade path that can take the image really to the very top end - a camera that will hold its own for years.

--
BTW my own story is that I bought a used PMW F3 camera - Id prefer a FS700+Recorder - but the F3+shuttle recorder can offer a superb image for the money (if bought used) - the downer on the F3 is no high frame rates and it is very heavy.

The 700 is light, the C100 even lighter.

The 700 really needs a rig, the c100 is kind of usable without a rig, but not really. Personally I hate the top handle on the c100 which is flimsy but cannot be removed as you need it to take the audio in!

My conclusion..

Poor? Buy a used AF100 (£1200)
Richer? Buy an FS700


Something I shot with the 700 onboard codec (and go pro)

https://vimeo.com/72094326

S
 
As relates to the cameras you found online. The FS700EK has the kit 18-200 lens and has not had its firmwareupgraded to be able to record 4k and 2k raw. The FA700R has no lens, but comes with the upgraded firmware.The cost for the firmware upgrade if you buy the EK version is $400 (well in the US it is, in Europe some people have been able to get it done for free at trade shows).I'd go FS700 if you can afford it. It uses the same 24mb AVCHD code that the C100 uses in camera.They both have a 4k sensor. However the FS700 gives you an upgrade path to 2k and 4k raw and 10 bit 422 HD, as well as slow motion, and the ability to use a speed booster, all of which the C100 can't do. If you can't swing the cost, the C100 is a great camera though, and it's cheaper.
 
I've used the FS100 and FS700 on different gigs, but I bought the C100.
Hated, no, really truly completely hated the ergonomics of the FS100/700. Loved the slomo on the FS700. Disappointed that FS100 doesn't have built in ND. Speedbooster was tempting for shallower DOF and that full frame look.
The C100 was cheaper than the FS700, but more than the FS100…but the C100 had built in ND and took all my Canon EF lenses without having to buy an adapter. So between adapters and ND filters the price was now a lot closer.
Ultimately what did it for me was the picture out of the C100. Maybe i didn't have enough time or knowledge of the Sonys, but I just couldn't get as nice a picture straight out of camera on the FS as I could with the Canon. As Sam pointed out, both cameras have an 8bit codec that won't hold up as well in a heavy grade. With that in mind, it's even more important to get the image you want straight out of the camera. Of course it's a matter of personal taste too. A lot of people are raving about the GH4, but to me it looks too much like video.
If you really have the money to spend, you could get the FS700 and an external recorder or 4k option, but now you're spending a whole lot of money and increasing the hassle factor as well.
 
Andrius Simutis said:
Hated, no, really truly completely hated the ergonomics of the FS100/700.
Click to expand...

Ive shot with them all too.

The ergos is funny - I love my FS100 on a shoulder rig but basically cant use it handheld without one at all! The C100 works better 'naked' but kind of gets weird on a rig, so tall, wonky handle (700 handle is strong enough even cam+vlock+monitor)

As for the image, Ive been let down by them all, in those mixed offices where you have some green daylight (tinted windows) flouros and tungsten fixtures and pump in some cheap LED - they all go wonky!

I thought the C100 was better but under the gun it was not!

The 700 is the obvious choice if one want to 'grow' a system towards cinematography, the C100 probably best if you want to do corporate and keeps costs down - it is the minimum camera Id do a stressed corporate with.

As with all of these choices - try.. A SHOP! Go in, play - see which feels right.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
The ergos is funny - I love my FS100 on a shoulder rig but basically cant use it handheld without one at all! The C100 works better 'naked' but kind of gets weird on a rig, so tall, wonky handle (700 handle is strong enough even cam+vlock+monitor)
Click to expand...
Because of the nature of my work, I don't get to use rigs too often. It's either on the tripod or it's handheld. The C100 works fine handheld for me. Could be better like everything, but works. With enough rig parts anything can be made to work. It's when the camera has to perform on its own that the ergonomics really come in to play. The other ergonomic mess of the FS series is that all the buttons feel the same and are in a grid. It's hard to get a feel for them quickly and make sure you're pushing the right one without looking.

morgan_moore said:
The 700 is the obvious choice if one want to 'grow' a system towards cinematography, the C100 probably best if you want to do corporate and keeps costs down - it is the minimum camera Id do a stressed corporate with.
Click to expand...
The FS700 can be grown into a bigger and better system, but how many FS700 owners have done it or even can afford to do it? The Sony path to 4k costs as much as the camera and does the Odyssey 7Q give you everything you need? I think that a lot of FS700 owner/operators on a budget will find a new camera has come out with all those features by the time they're ready to upgrade. Then again…slllllllooooooowwwwwww motion looks so nice. It's a tough call and I'm glad I don't have to make it again!
 
Andrius Simutis said:
Because of the nature of my work, I don't get to use rigs too often. It's either on the tripod or it's handheld. The C100 works fine handheld for me. Could be better like everything, but works. With enough rig parts anything can be made to work. It's when the camera has to perform on its own that the ergonomics really come in to play. The other ergonomic mess of the FS series is that all the buttons feel the same and are in a grid. It's hard to get a feel for them quickly and make sure you're pushing the right one without looking.


The FS700 can be grown into a bigger and better system, but how many FS700 owners have done it or even can afford to do it? The Sony path to 4k costs as much as the camera and does the Odyssey 7Q give you everything you need? I think that a lot of FS700 owner/operators on a budget will find a new camera has come out with all those features by the time they're ready to upgrade. Then again…slllllllooooooowwwwwww motion looks so nice. It's a tough call and I'm glad I don't have to make it again!
Click to expand...

I too have used all three....and the C300 as well. I used to own a FS100, and sold it and bought the FS700.
I have also shot for three different shows which used the C300, so am very familiar with that as well. The
FS700 IS more of a pain. The onboard monitor is in a dumb spot so that you can't shoot high angles very easily.
On the other hand, the onboard screens on all of them are not great, so when I've used the C300 in a production
environment, it was outside....which meant we had to bolt on an external EVF anyways. From my experience,
the picture from the FS700 and C100 is very close, no matter what Canon fans tell you. See, they both use the
same AVCHD code, same bitrate, and both have a 4K chip which is being downrezzed in camera to 1080P, so
not really a surprise that they would look similar. Colorimetry is obviously different, to my eyes the Sony looked
more 'true to life' and the Canon 'warmer' which to many people is more pleasing. But you can adjust the
picture profiles in about 5 million different ways, so looking at what comes out of the camera 'out of the box'
is of limited value, unless you are only going to shoot with picture profiles off and never try to tweak the image
to get a better look. Like anything, once you use it enough, pushing the buttons on the FS700 is second
nature. You have to learn their position, but I sure would rather have physical buttons than be digging around
in menus or using a touchscreen interface! So unlike many others, I am GLAD that Sony put all those buttons
on the body of the camera! The last suggestion I would make, is if you do get the FS100 or 700, IMMEDIATELY
perform the loupe modification! It makes it MUCH MUCH better to shoot with handheld. Maybe not to the
level of the C100, but a big improvement.

Second, judging by the FS700 user group on facebook and vimeo that I am a member of, the large majority
of them have bought Odyssey 7Qs. Yeah, now you are talking about 3 grand more.....YIKES.
As far as the FS700/7Q giving you everything....well, pretty much. 2K Raw with unlimited high frame rates,
4k Raw, 4K to HD (which is 10bit 422 HD, a BIG improvement over C100 or even C300 as you actually get 10 bit
video). There are a couple things missing from the Odyssey yet, as CD is working to release more features.
Coming at some point will be 4K ProRes (so you won't have to deal with huge file sizes of 4k raw) as well
as 4K up to 120 fps (4k slow motion). Not sure what else you would need? All these updates to the Odyssey
7Q will be free.

Of course, yes there will be cameras at some point released that can do what the FS700/7Q does....but
recorded internally! Won't that be nice! As a matter of fact, said camera already exists, the Sony F5/55.
Since they have those more expensive cameras to 'protect' do you think they will release something priced
at the FS700 level that will do all those things internally? Eventually I am sure they will, but I am guessing
they aren't rushing to do it, which makes me think the FS700/7Q may be a good option for some (undetermined)
time yet. Of course, Canon could release such a camera....which would have to be priced higher than the C300
I would think.

Really it comes down to what you want to do. The C100 is a 'one trick pony' in my eyes, but it does it's
one trick (normal 24p shooting) very well. The FS700 is so much more versatile (slow motion, timelapse with
'smeary' shutter, speedbooster for 'full frame' look, much more versatile in lensing, you can use pretty much
any lens you want instead of being stuck with only Canon lenses)......but you pay for that versatility. The
type of shooting you do matters, and budget always matters as well.
 
"The last suggestion I would make, is if you do get the FS100 or 700, IMMEDIATELY
perform the loupe modification! It makes it MUCH MUCH better to shoot with handheld. Maybe not to the
level of the C100, but a big improvement."

Thanks for your post. But I have a question about the above post. The C100 EVF is far worse than the 100/700. Thats a fact! So I do not understand how the Sony camera EVF's are not hoiding up to the C100. Please explain. Thanks!
 
imaj said:
"The last suggestion I would make, is if you do get the FS100 or 700, IMMEDIATELY
perform the loupe modification! It makes it MUCH MUCH better to shoot with handheld. Maybe not to the
level of the C100, but a big improvement."

Thanks for your post. But I have a question about the above post. The C100 EVF is far worse than the 100/700. Thats a fact! So I do not understand how the Sony camera EVF's are not hoiding up to the C100. Please explain. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The Sony loupe mod doesn't have anything to do with the
quality of Sony's screen. It just shortens the long loupe
so that it doesn't flop around and makes it more ergonomic
for handhold shooting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top