Heliopan Vari ND, FS100, and the SAL 1650 Lens

R

Rayburn

Member
Since I got so much useful information from people on this site, I thought I would give back a little and tell people about my experiences so far. If you do plan to use the same configuration that I am, there are some issues to be aware of. The biggest problem is the vignetting caused at the wider focal lengths of this lens. Originallly, my plan was to buy the FS100, EA1 adapter, SAL 1650, and put a Heliopan Vari ND in front to compensate for the fact that the FS100 lacks internal NDs. I tried Non-variables at first, but screwing them on and off got to be a pain and did not allow for enough flexibility. Enter the Heliopan. Because the SAL 1650 has a 72mm filter size, and I wanted to buy an ND filter that could fit multiple lenses, I ended up buying a 72mm to 77mm step up ring figuring the wider dimensions would negate the extra length the step up ring added. Unfortunately, there is noticeable vignetting up to 24mm. Past 24mm you should be fine, but I'm beginning to wonder if I should have:

A) bought a larger Heliopan filter with a larger step up ring such as the 72 to 82mm or...

B) bought the 72mm Heliopan eliminating the need for a step up ring altogether.

If anyone can shed any light on the subject, that would be great. I don't feel like spending another $300 to test out if the other solutions work better.

As far as clarity goes, I haven't shot anything yet but will do some tests to see how it performs in the near future.
 
Sorry to hear this as I have almost the exact same setup (but I have the LA-ea2 and genus variNDs)
I just recieved my b&H order this afternoon that has the sal 1650 2.8, sal 24-75 2.8 and 2 la ea2s, I still haven't even opened the box yet but will try a few setups in the am.
I hope the genus nd might not have the vig problem but..........
PS how thick are your step up rings?
 
I think the step up ring is the problem.....it puts the Heliopan out further in front of the lens, which can cause the vignetting.
I do not have any vignetting on the kit lens at 18mm with a thin 67 to 77 step ring then the 77mm Heliopan, but with a little
thicker step ring, I do get some vignetting, so I think that 18mm is right at the limit...and even then it better be a thin step
up ring. I think they make a 82mm Heliopan, that would give you a little extra 'wiggle room' at the wide end.
 
I bought the step up ring from BH. It doesn't seem to thick, but does add a little to the filter. When I compare my Heliopan variable ND to my UV haze plus B+W ND filter stacked together, the Heliopan is still thicker. I am thinking that I should have bought the 82mm filter since I want to be able to use at least close to the full range of my SAL 1650. Maybe this puppy will be going on ebay soon.
 
Did a few tests this morn with a sal 1650 la ea2 genus vari nd......my observations....

The la ea2 will not allow any iris or AF at all in it's current configuration.
attempting to adjust iris or af pops up a box " Non conforming lens" I kinda expected no AF, but thought I would get some option to adjust iris?????
needless to say I will be keeping the hardware and waiting for the firmware update which I'm sure will fix all those problems.

secondly (raybur) I have a Tiffen 72-77 step up ring. (I have 3 in various sizes) It is about half as thin as the Bower brand I also have so If I were you I would get one of those before buying anything else because.........
I get virtually no vig at 16 on the sal 1650 with my stepup ring and genus vari nd. As I start to unscrew the vari nd and it gets close to the ends of the threads I can begin to see some vig so the tolerances are VERY close at 16mm. I would give a strong guess that alaska cam guy (Gabe?) is correct and the stepup ring is your problem. (and it shouldn't cost but a few bucks to verify that)

Thirdly, the sal 1650 is NOT parfocal., hooked up to the 42" tv and no go. Close? ehhh, but def NOT parfocal. Doesn't really matter to me for what I will be using the glass for but it would have been nice......
 
It could be that the Genus ND is thinner than the Heliopan.

Have you gous considered that for about the same cost of the Sony 1650 plus the EA2 (perhaps even a few $ less), you could have purchased a Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 plus the new Conurus adapter? You would get OIS but you would loose autofocus. Iris control should be the same (after the firmware update). Just a thought.
 
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stevedocmaker said:
It could be that the Genus ND is thinner than the Heliopan.

Have you gous considered that for about the same cost of the Sony 1650 plus the EA2 (perhaps even a few $ less), you could have purchased a Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 plus the new Conurus adapter? You would get OIS but you would loose autofocus. Iris control should be the same (after the firmware update). Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Could be the genus is thinner but, for the cost of a step up ring, I'd go that way first.

I actually own a canon 17 55 2.8 on my dslr. I did consider that option (and birger) but opted for the sony way. I think in the next 60 days or so I'll be happier that way for what I shoot.
 
The Heliopan is a beast. It doesn't look it from the pictures, but the thing is like three normal filters stacked on top of each other. I think polarization filters are thick to begin with. When I put a UV plus Polarizer on, it also vignettes, and the vari ND is suppose to be two polarizers stacked on top of each other. From looking at my B+W step up ring versus a Tiffen, I don't see that big of a difference but the pictures on BH could be deceiving. I guess I can bring my step up ring to Samy's camera and do a comparison. I would go with a genus variable ND, but I read reviews that the image goes soft after a focal length of 55mm which would prevent me from using it on my Canon 35-105mm FD lens. Right now, I am wondering what the better solution is. If I put a 72mm heliopan on, it would eliminate the need for a step up ring which pushes the filter closer to the lens. However, if I use an 82mm heliopan with a step up ring, it gives me a wider opening to prevent vignetting. I wish Fotomayr was located in Los Angeles so I could just test all of these things.
 
Rayburn said:
The Heliopan is a beast. It doesn't look it from the pictures, but the thing is like three normal filters stacked on top of each other. I think polarization filters are thick to begin with. When I put a UV plus Polarizer on, it also vignettes, and the vari ND is suppose to be two polarizers stacked on top of each other. From looking at my B+W step up ring versus a Tiffen, I don't see that big of a difference but the pictures on BH could be deceiving. I guess I can bring my step up ring to Samy's camera and do a comparison. I would go with a genus variable ND, but I read reviews that the image goes soft after a focal length of 55mm which would prevent me from using it on my Canon 35-105mm FD lens. Right now, I am wondering what the better solution is. If I put a 72mm heliopan on, it would eliminate the need for a step up ring which pushes the filter closer to the lens. However, if I use an 82mm heliopan with a step up ring, it gives me a wider opening to prevent vignetting. I wish Fotomayr was located in Los Angeles so I could just test all of these things.
Click to expand...

I think there is something to consider here. If you had a 72mm heliopan, it would eliminate the need for a step ring and yes, probably get rid of the vignetting.
However, then, you would not be able to use your heliopan on any lenses with a 77mm thread. I think the best thing to do (and this is just my opinion) is to
get the BIGGEST size heliopan that you can. Step rings are cheap. A good variable ND like the heliopan is expensive. I'd rather just be able to keep a step
ring that goes from whatever my particular lens size is, to the heliopan size and just screw the heliopan onto the lens I am using. That's what I do now,
I have a 50mm F1.4 with a 52-77 step ring, a 28-90 F2.8 with a 72-77 step ring and the kit lens with a 67-77 step ring. The widest I get is 18mm and I don't
get any vignetting, but the biggest heliopan they had when I bought them was 77mm. If they would have had the 82mm one, I would have bought that one, because
it's easy to go from a smaller size lens to a bigger filter, but you can't do it the other way. So if you think you may ever want a lens that has a bigger than
72mm front threads, I would not go the 72mm heliopan route.
 
Good advice. I was kind of leaning towards that way for the reasons you stated. The 82mm is more expensive than the 72mm, but I think in the future it will be worth it.
 
That's about the only thing you can do with the LAEA1 adapter, but yes, you can adjust the iris on it. When you adjust the iris to open up more, there is a flashing effect because the iris opens up a few stops above the desired aperture before stopping down to the correct aperture. I'm not sure why this is, but that is how it works. Stopping down works like you would expect it too. However, it does stop down in increments so it will not look nice if you try an aperture change midway through a shot. I thought about getting the LAEA2 adapter, but due to the cost and the fact the firmware to take advantage of its benefits was not out yet, I decided on the sure thing. I may upgrade to the LAEA2 later if it delivers what it is suppose to. Hope that helps.
 
Didn't realize different companies made thinner step up rings (not sure why I didn't think of that). I've always had problems with my LCW variable ND with my Tokina 11-16 at 11 because I get vignetting due to the adapter.

Wish there was a site that measured them, my google fu is not finding anything that useful yet.
 
For those of you wondering, I just got my 82mm Heliopan from Fotomayr (Another great transaction with Sally), and I put it on my SAL 1650 with a 72mm to 82mm step up ring. I looked into the LCD and, HORRAY! no vignetting. However, I will not be able to put anything else in front of the filter since it is literally at the edge of frame. So here is my advice to anyone looking to get the Heliopan. Buy the 82mm and just use step up rings to make it fit various lenses. It is more expensive but will give you more flexibility while reducing the chance of vignetting. Just look at it this way. If you were going to buy the 72mm from BH photo video, for the same cost of an 82mm with step up ring you can buy it from Fotomayr. I have to thank Frank again for showing us the site. Now if only I could get Huang from Tilta to email me back.
 
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