Headphones for live monitoring

ullanta said:
Guitar Center doesn't have a variety of high-quality, specialized gear. Although it can be a GREAT environment for testing isolation...
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True enough on the latter, and I wondered, considering how much the salesman oohed and ahhed over the Sennheiser ME66 I took in to Guitar Center last year. I got from my salesman at Videotex that it was a solid, entry-level shotgun, so I was surprised to have that kind of reaction to it.

What an interesting job you have. I grew up on classical music (Dad's fault; it's still some of my favorite music) and heard the differences in quality of the many recordings. I've been surprised at how much better, in many cases--outside the ticks and pops of the vinyl itself--the recordings from fifty years ago are compared to more contemporary recordings. Considering the quality of the equipment now, it's clearly an art form to getting it right. (Though I'll be the first to say that I'd take a mass-market receiver, a la Yamaha or Marantz, from the Seventies over one from today in a heartbeat. Construction anyone?)

Thanks for detailing the differences on the headphones. Looks like I'll try the EX-29s after all, and down the road opt for some of the Sennheisers.

Thanks all.
 
texvanwinkle said:
Of course, but first I want to know what to consider, and in my experience that's far better determined by talking to professionals in the field, i.e., you folks, rather than the folks at the stores. You know more of what you speak and it's more pertinent to how I'll be using the equipment than what I'd usually find in a store. Whether I end up buying stuff online or not, I always check out the reviews and survey opinions online first. Now when I do go in to Guitar Center, which is, yes, just down the road, I know what to focus on--far more, mostly likely, than if I'd gone in cold.
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Yeah, Tex, I agree, as you should do as much investigation as possible. I owned and operated a regional touring sound company for almost 15 years before I did video and the main focus of it was live production and concerts, so I have lots of experience in noisy environments, to say the least. I used Sony headphones, Sennheiser headphones, AKG, Beyerdynamic, you name it, I have used it. I found that Sennheiser continuously provided nicer, more comfortable, and better priced product than the competition. And actually Guitar Center DOES carry high quality head phones, at least high enough for what you are looking at doing. If you want to spend $1000 on headphones, maybe not, but they carry most lines of professional headphones. Albeit, they don't have the most knowledgeable staff, it is a good place to go mess around with stuff like that.

I'm sure people have experience with the products that they are referring to, but unless you are looking for "gun muffs", I wouldn't go with a product that is used to isolate helicopter noise. You don't need it. The Sennheiser HD 280's will provide plenty of isolation while providing excellent sound quality at a reasonable price. I use them on a daily basis and can barely hear the phone ring when it's sitting on my desk when they're on. But get what you want. And they can be had for under $100. Just my recommendation.
 
I would never use noise cancelling headphones to monitor a recording with. As someone already pointed out they achieve the noise cancelling by emitting frequencies.

For monitoring you want as honest and clear a sound as possible without electronic filtering.

As someone else pointed out you also will be better served with closed headphones that cover the entire ear with enough padding / sound rejection material to isolate sound so that you can actually hear what the recording device is picking up and is being transmitted through the headphones (something impossible sometimes even with closed headhpones - like in a small music venue with a loud rock band!).
 
There are a small number of headphones that are suitable for this purpose, and few of these combine relatively flat frequency response with good sound and good isolation. Of this, the Audio Technica M50 is considerably better than than the competition and is reasonably priced. It would really be a mistake to purchase a pair without auditioning these. There is a short break in period followed by rich, detailed sound. Cans are a personal choice, but Sony would not make my list. There are better options from Sennheiser and AKG. Obviously, the Sennheiser HD600 are going to sound better, but they are not isolating cans. The M50s can rotate out for single listening as well, and they are foldable. They aren't small, but they sound amazing.
 
texvanwinkle said:
I've been surprised at how much better, in many cases--outside the ticks and pops of the vinyl itself--the recordings from fifty years ago are compared to more contemporary recordings. Considering the quality of the equipment now, it's clearly an art form to getting it right.
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There are a lot of factors in there, from recording equipment to recording technique to performer attitude to standards of what's "good"! But... modern sounds have a lot more top end, and much crisper top end, which is often NOT flattering to classical music ("accurate" as it may or may not be) - a lot of the unwanted "instrument noise" falls into that range, and certainly a lot of brittleness often creeps in. Older recordings tend to be pure stereo recordings, or sectional recordings at most; modern ones often mic individual instruments and synthesize the stereo image.... a different and unnatural sound, again with a greater presence of instrument noise. Older records tend to be recorded through, very lightly edited at best; these days, for recording, performers are often recording passage by passage, making sure to be "note perfect" - which really reduces big-picture musicality in many cases. As for standards of "good" along the same lines... everything now must be note-perfect. Older recordings, of the "great performers", are full of mistakes - but very alive and musical. In a way, it's the popularity of recordings that has caused this - a mistake in a live concert flys by, but a mistake on a recording gets more glaring the more you listen to it.... but "mainstream classical" attitudes which focus on perfect reproduction of a fixed cannon are also a BIG problem...

(rant, rant.... done!)
 
I can advocate that the sennheiser hd280's are great. Simply a clean, natural sound, with great isolation, and comfort. I use em to mix songs I make in garageband too, very true. I know alot of producers that mix with them
 
DrDave said:
There are a small number of headphones that are suitable for this purpose, and few of these combine relatively flat frequency response with good sound and good isolation. Of this, the Audio Technica M50 is considerably better than than the competition and is reasonably priced.
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MattRobertson said:
I can advocate that the sennheiser hd280's are great. Simply a clean, natural sound, with great isolation, and comfort.
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We're talking about two very different classes of 'phones here, and many of you are missing that. Nothing from any of the mainstream headphone manufacturers (AT, Sony, Sennheiser, Yamaha, etc.) really fits into the class of "high-isolation" headphones. The high-isolation, high-quality headphones are pretty much boutique items you won't find in any mainstream audio store... you won't have a chance to try them at Guitar Center or Sam Ash. You can try them at a small subset of production-audio related specialty shops - such as B&H, Location Sound, Coffey Sound, Trew Audio, etc.

For those suggesting ANYTHING from Sony, AT, Sennheiser, etc., as having "good isolation" - I humbly submit that you don't know what good isolation is until you've tried something like the HN7506.

I'm not saying that these are best for situations where isolation ISN'T the most important factor. But where isolation is essential... forget anything from a mainstream manufacturer.
 
Well, what I got from Tex's posts are that he's looking for a good quality set of headphones for all around uses. What we have been suggesting is going to be a good multipurpose set while cutting down immensely on outside noise. I don't think (from my impressions) that he is looking for complete isolation or something super special, just a good quality set of headphones at a good price. Many suggestions out there Tex, check em all out and see what will work best for you.
 
Right... I just want to keep the distinction clear because terms like "great isolation" are being used a lot, but I think with drastically different meaning to different people.

However, I'll reiterate just to be repetitive: don't think you know how good (or bad) things can be until you've tried a set of really good isolating headphones. They aren't easy to find, so I think a lot of people have never tried them and don't quite get the difference, especially since manufacturer specs from the name brands claim a lot more isolation than they really provide. ..
 
Headroom publishes the isolation in dB, you can choose the amount of isolation you need. We don't all need ultra isolation, and in live video you want to hear that bus or bicycle coming from behind. Although there are cans that give greater isolation, they don't always sound better. The 7506 isolation is superior, but I simply prefer the drivers on the M50s for the sound--if I need more dampening, I would actually mod the M50s, or go with the 7506. But hey, I got the M50s for $99. Polls--if you can trust the polls--show a strong preference for HD280s--even above the 7506. But what the all show is that top engineers have their favorite cans--and they are often very different. And the 280s are good--I used them for years. I just prefer the M50s. Since all of my recording monitoring is done on speakers in a separate room, isolation is simply not an issue, but there are times when I need isolation combined with reasonably good and accurate sound. For example, fine tuning the placement of a single mic in an orchestra, I hook up a battery powered preamp/hp combo from RME and fiddle with the placement right in front of the player. And for this, the M50 is excellent, far better than the Hd 280. Headphones are personal, some people like Stax, some like Sennheiser, some like Grado, and so on. There are a lot of 7506 users out there. I just don't like the drivers--that is my taste. I could see using their custom baffling with other drivers. I advocate getting a really good HP amp and auditioning them all--then you know what you like. After you try them, you will know for sure, and I'm confident that the M50s will hold up very well against any closed cans. Don't take my word for it, give a listen. At 12dB isolation--the Headroom number, not the inflated number--they are not the most isolated, but they are great for what I need, which is location video and studio sound. The extended FR is great for troubleshooting noise problems on location as well, both high and low, as well as recording electronic music with extended range and monitoring sound effects, engine noise and so on. A lot of drivers have so many hotspots in the FR they give you a distorted reference for your audio--headphones are far from flat, the 280s are flatter than the M50s, but I still think the M50s are more real sounding. No question the baffling of Remote Audio is way bigger, and gives more isolation.
 
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ullanta said:
The high-isolation, high-quality headphones are pretty much boutique items you won't find in any mainstream audio store... you won't have a chance to try them at Guitar Center or Sam Ash.
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Actually, I bought my Direct Sound Extreme Isolation 'phones at Sam Ash. Don't know if they still carry them, though.
 
I bought the "Klipsch Custom 1 In Ear Headphones" when they were $129. They are $49 now. I love them. Often at weddings when I am done with the important audio monitoring section I unplug them and have decent earplugs. The "Klipsch Custom 3 In Ear Headphones", if you can find them, have separate bass and treble in the headphone. I needed a smaller headphone for shooting outside all day in the Summer. Traditional circumaural headphone make to much sweat!

To some up, I like these headphones especially for discreet, sound isolation.
 
My 2 cents: For all around usage (but little isolation) I use the Yamaha RH5Ma. They feel great, sound great & accurate (like my Grado 225) and cost $50. I've used all sorts of cans and keep coming back to these for video location recording and multitrack studio work. These are great phones but somewhat difficult to locate.

For great ISO use the Sony HN-7506, Ullanta is suggesting. It will take some time & pain to get use to the head vice effect but it's worth it if you need to focus your ears of getting the best mic position possible. Remember you're not recording just the source, it's the whole room that colors the track. Whatever you do, at least try them out before hand in a real environment to hear & feel what you're really getting.
 
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10s said:
My 2 cents: For all around usage (but little isolation) I use the Yamaha RH5Ma. They feel great, sound great & accurate (like my Grado 225) and cost $50. I've used all sorts of cans and keep coming back to these for video location recording and multitrack studio work. These are great phones but somewhat difficult to locate.

For great ISO use the Sony HN-7506, Ullanta is suggesting. It will take some time & pain to get use to the head vice effect but it's worth it if you need to focus your ears of getting the best mic position possible. Remember you're not recording just the source, it's the whole room that colors the track. Whatever you do, at least try them out before hand in a real environment to hear & feel what you're really getting.
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My only issue with the HN-7506 is that they're 3 times the price of the Direct Sound 'phones. Great if you can afford it.
 
kgimedia said:
I bought the "Klipsch Custom 1 In Ear Headphones" when they were $129. They are $49 now. I love them. Often at weddings when I am done with the important audio monitoring section I unplug them and have decent earplugs. The "Klipsch Custom 3 In Ear Headphones", if you can find them, have separate bass and treble in the headphone. I needed a smaller headphone for shooting outside all day in the Summer. Traditional circumaural headphone make to much sweat!

To some up, I like these headphones especially for discreet, sound isolation.
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Oh, yeah, that was what I was going to tell you too - In ear's might be a good choice too. I have a pair of Shure E3's and I love them. They are like ear plugs with sound - they come with all different types of adapters to fit in your ear. They were designed for live, onstage monitoring for musicians in obviously noisy environments.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
My only issue with the HN-7506 is that they're 3 times the price of the Direct Sound 'phones. Great if you can afford it.
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As I may have said, I have an earlier version of the Direct Sound headphones, and the EX-29s are supposed to be "improved" - but I'd say the price difference is well worth it if it's not a real impossibility. Aside from better isolation and better sound quality, one has the feeling that one could pound the Extreme Isolation headphones - or any studio headphones - into smithereens with the HN-7506s, maybe even smash a few windows and bricks with 'em, without them suffering any ill effects. Definitely a feeling of LONG lasting quality which the Direct Sounds don't really achieve.

And as I've said before, chicks really dig the gel earpads, and like to rub them.
 
ullanta said:
As I may have said, I have an earlier version of the Direct Sound headphones, and the EX-29s are supposed to be "improved" - but I'd say the price difference is well worth it if it's not a real impossibility. Aside from better isolation and better sound quality, one has the feeling that one could pound the Extreme Isolation headphones - or any studio headphones - into smithereens with the HN-7506s, maybe even smash a few windows and bricks with 'em, without them suffering any ill effects. Definitely a feeling of LONG lasting quality which the Direct Sounds don't really achieve.

And as I've said before, chicks really dig the gel earpads, and like to rub them.
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Had to postpone shopping for actual work for a few days. Cramps my style. I've opted for the Direct Sound, since B&H has a demo pair for $62. So if they turn out not to be enough, I'll opt for the 7506's. Besides, I'm married. Why invite trouble if I don't have to?
 
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