HDX 1080 not a native resolution?

[mezelf27]

Yes, a total quantity, but not an array. How are the 270k divided up? What's the array? Why are they keeping it secret? Etc... they never bothered to say. Canon says 1440x1080 on the XL H1, but they never said "anything x anything" for the XL1.

Well, that might be a lttle to stern on your part. Whenever a manufacturer doesn't give this info, you should think in terms of 'native pixel aspect ratio' (what was still necessary those days). Besides: the XL1s has 440k or something pixels: so there is no doubt: it is just full res 720(+) by 576(+)... On the 270k thing you still might be a little in the dark, I agree, but you have to admit: panasonic doesn't give a total number, nor dimensions...

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

With all due respect, I am not condeming Pana, but pointing out my opinion of how I feel they are not behaving in a professional manner over information on their "finished product", which is packed on a pallette ready for shipping. As I have said, it's not what the actual specs are, but the behaviour and attitude of holding back on information. After all, it's not NAB on Dec 5th.

Actually we have an big press event scheduled around DV Expo. So you take your events when you can and DVExpo has always been a very nice launch show for us. And yes, we will be holding back information so that there is something to talk about at that event. And that is as professional as it gets. Why would you make people come to a press event if there was not new information to learn? That would be pretty unprofessional.

And how exactly would you know that they are on a packed on a pallet? Did you see this stack? It simply isn't true.

What really matters is now. I am only pointing out that I feel Canon did a better thing by letting a person shoot with their new camera and post the results before they released the camera to the public. They were confident with what they made and they even did not seek out a DP to shoot with it.

The footage I have seen that is worthwhile and convincing from the Canon camera was not only shot by a DP but an entire crew. The stuff from the Japanese site would not convince me to buy the camera and in fact showed me exactly why not to have a non-DP shoot first footage.

And, I give credit to everyone here for having enough intelligence to make decisions/oipinions and know the difference between the results of who shot what and how they went about doing it. The Canon footage was presented to everyone with a full disclaimer on who shot, how he shot it and that he was a not a typical DP at it's best. I bet everyone would be happy to see Jan shot out a window for a few minutes like before. Maybe even the guy in shipping who packed the pallette.

Frankly if I have a camera and it is not at 100% and I post footage from that, Amsterdam, and everyone starts to criticize the footage and because it is not professionally shot, the criticize that. All I end up doing is apologizing for the quality of it and trying to make reassure everyone that it is from a camera that is not final. Frankly that doesn't sound like something we should do.

It should be at the top of their priority list, IMO. And I can wait for "killer fooatge" when they get around to it.

And footage will be released before this camera's release.

I would like to have respect for a company who has integrity. I would rather have techs talking instead of reps/salesman.

And I am not sure what you mean by this. If you are referencing me, I am not a salesperson, nor am I a rep. I am a product manager. I helped to write the technical specifications for this product. Few people in this country understand the product better.


Best,

Jan

 

[dregenthal]

Yo Go Jan!!! Thanks for sharing what you can -- looking forward to a hugely sucsessful launch.

 

[Stevet]

Frankly if I have a camera and it is not at 100% and I post footage from that, Amsterdam, and everyone starts to criticize the footage and because it is not professionally shot, the criticize that. All I end up doing is apologizing for the quality of it and trying to make reassure everyone that it is from a camera that is not final. Frankly that doesn't sound like something we should do.

I hear ya Jan. It's the old "damned if I do, damned if I don't".

Thank you Jan, we're looking forward to your press event!

Steve

 

[GGman]

And how exactly would you know that they are on a packed on a pallet? Did you see this stack? It simply isn't true.

Ask your sales rep who said it, not me. I only reported what your rep said. I never said I saw it. I said I heard your rep say it the other night to a room full of potential customers. Why can't people understand this simple statement from me? Does everything always have to have a spin put on it?


The footage I have seen that is worthwhile and convincing from the Canon camera was not only shot by a DP but an entire crew. The stuff from the Japanese site would not convince me to buy the camera and in fact showed me exactly why not to have a non-DP shoot first footage.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you are probably not shopping for a Canon, are you? and , hey... many people got a chance to see footage from a camera before it was released. Which is the point I was making.


Frankly if I have a camera and it is not at 100% and I post footage from that, Amsterdam, and everyone starts to criticize the footage and because it is not professionally shot, the criticize that. All I end up doing is apologizing for the quality of it and trying to make reassure everyone that it is from a camera that is not final. Frankly that doesn't sound like something we should do.

That was before. Your rep said it was done and packed for shipping. Talk to your reps and find out why they say these things. And you say "everyone". I dd not say anything and I doubt you heard from everyone. Maybe you meant you heard from some or quite a few people?



And footage will be released before this camera's release.
I would hope so.



And I am not sure what you mean by this. If you are referencing me, I am not a salesperson, nor am I a rep. I am a product manager. I helped to write the technical specifications for this product. Few people in this country understand the product better.

I have never met you or talked to you before, Jan. I did not make any direct referrence to you except that you mentioned you shot some footage out of a window awhile back. I hope to see you "finish" writing your technical specs for the camera someday.

Hopefully, for the last time, I reported what a Pana rep said to a group in Detroit on last Tuesday. it is what I saw and heard. I am wasting my time answering all these responses that spin off these facts in some sort of defense for Pana and their reps. I would hope to see some intelligent responses that are directly related to what I said. If there is no pallette full of cameras to ship and the cam is not finished, then the issue now is with the rep who said it. Not me. Don't kill the messenger if you don't like the facts being heard. If the specs are still going to be held back from the public, then that is Pana's choice and they will have to live with those decisions and what goes with it now and later. In regards to not talking now so you can "have something to say" on Dec 5 at DV Expo, you can still say everything then, answer questions from people that attend and show what the camera can do. Not everyone in the world (a very large number of people) are going to LA for the show.

Best,
GGman

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I am wasting my time answering all these responses that spin off these facts in some sort of defense for Pana and their reps.

I for one feel no need to go out of my way to defend anyone, nor do I feel I spun off any facts.

I would hope to see some intelligent responses that are directly related to what I said. If there is no pallette full of cameras to ship and the cam is not finished, then the issue now is with the rep who said it. Not me. Don't kill the messenger if you don't like the facts being heard.

First off many people took the time to respond to what you said, they just didn't happen to agree with you. That does not make our opinions unintelligent.
My responses were directly related to what you said, as were other people's.

Secondly, a sales rep might have gotten something wrong.
Yes, amazing, but it does happen. People make mistakes.
Obviously the rep you heard was mistaken.

I've had reps tell me that the camera was going to shoot straight to hard drives. I have a Sony rep once tell me that the PD150 could shoot progressive. A Canon rep had no idea what I meant when I asked him about the aspect ratio of the CCDs on the XL2. And I once had a rep who swore that 1/3" chips were actually 1/3" in diagonal when all documentation and other expert opinions proved otherwise.

Point is, reps get information wrong all the time.
People get information wrong all the time.
People make mistakes.
Not that big a deal.

What is a big deal to me is to have people take the time to respond to a thread and then say that you had hoped someone would have said something intelligent in response to your points. Your points have been responded to directly and intelligently. People disagree with you, that's all. That's what happens when opinions are discussed and debated.

If the specs are still going to be held back from the public, then that is Pana's choice and they will have to live with those decisions and what goes with it now and later.

That's exactly right.
I'm willing to bet the price of a new HVX right now that waiting until December 5th to release the chip specs isn't going even be a blip on the radar after the camera's release.

In regards to not talking now so you can "have something to say" on Dec 5 at DV Expo, you can still say everything then, answer questions from people that attend and show what the camera can do. Not everyone in the world (a very large number of people) are going to LA for the show.

But many many people will be tuning in to see what is said.
Just like most people don't go to NAB... but look at the activity on the boards during NAB week. It's basic marketing. There is no drama in unveiling something if everything is known about it. People are still waiting for the final pieces of the puzzle... and Jan has even been gracious enough to tell us exactly when we'll find out. It is marketing, and it works. If it didn't work this thread wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be as worked up as you are.

And again, this is all before the camera is officially on the shelves.
Listening to you, if I didn't know better I'd think the camera was out on the shelves and Panasonic was expecting people to buy it without knowing the chip specs.

 

[GGman]

... a sales rep might have gotten something wrong.
Yes, amazing, but it does happen. People make mistakes.
Obviously the rep you heard was mistaken.


And that's all that really needs to be said. Preferrably from a Pana rep, though.
Now back to the original thread about HVX200 1080 native resolution and why it has to be a secret.

I don't feel worked up? You can't always go by wriitten words.

GGman

 

[Barry_Green]

Besides: the XL1s has 440k or something pixels: so there is no doubt: it is just full res 720(+) by 576(+)...

Not true, the XL1s uses 270k-pixel CCDs, with 250,000 effective pixels.

On the 270k thing you still might be a little in the dark, I agree, but you have to admit: panasonic doesn't give a total number, nor dimensions...

Correct -- they give no indication at all, other than that they have said "it is a high-def chipset."

 

[Luis Caffesse]

And that's all that really needs to be said. Preferrably from a Pana rep, though.

But how would we know whether or not THAT Pana rep was right in saying the other was wrong?

Now back to the original thread about HVX200 1080 native resolution and why it has to be a secret.

I think that topic is probably dead.
Seems clear to me that the chip specs and footage are the only pieces to this camera that have yet to be released to be analyzed and poured over. As Jan said, they have to keep something for the release date. Trust me, those specs will be disected by everyone here, probably to death. But, obviously there will be nothing to say until December 5th.

You can't always go by wriitten words.

That's all we have here, so I have no choice.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

On the 270k thing you still might be a little in the dark, I agree, but you have to admit: panasonic doesn't give a total number, nor dimensions...

Yeah, one slight difference though.
The XL1 came out in 1998. It's been eight years and we still don't know the specs on the chips.
The HVX won't be out until the end of December.
I'll be shocked if we're still having this conversation in December of 2013.

 

[GGman]

Luis,

I agree

This all reminds me of when the first chips came out for cameras. I had a new Ikegami to demo before NAB and we opened it up to see that it had NEC chips inside. It made very good pictures. We went to NAB and wanted to buy it, but Ikegami was having a problem saying they didn't know what chips would be inside if we bought one today. It turned out they sold their camera with lower quality chips while demoing it with really good chips. NEC did have a camera at that NAB and we were able to buy it then and got it a week later with the best chips at that time.

I think it does matter to know what is under the hood.

Best regards,
GGman

 

[Barry_Green]

Of course it matters, but it only matters if the customer is able to do something meaningful with the information.

Here's an example: would you buy the camera that has the 10x optical zoom, or the one that offers 300x digital zoom?

You and I and most on this board probably know that even without seeing footage, the 10x optical zoom is going to be the way better product. I pity the poor customer who decides between a DVX and a Sharp POS, and sees the DVX has a 10x optical zoom and the POS has a 300x digital zoom and thinks "well, there's the deciding factor, obviously the bigger number = better, right?"

Knowing the pixel spec would be a useful, valid piece of information for maybe 0.00001% of us on this board. For the rest of us, the best it could accomplish would be to mislead us just like the 10x optical vs. the 300x digital zoom.

 

[David Jimerson]

And then there are those of us who don't need to know the weight of a silver nitrate molecule in order to decide if a particular stock of film fits our needs.

 

[mezelf27]

Not true, the XL1s uses 270k-pixel CCDs, with 250,000 effective pixels.

Could be, I was just reciting the numbers of the top off my head. ANyhow, A LOT MORE info than they're willing to give at Pana....

 

[GGman]

Knowing the pixel spec would be a useful, valid piece of information for maybe 0.00001% of us on this board. For the rest of us, the best it could accomplish would be to mislead us just like the 10x optical vs. the 300x digital zoom.

Maybe, but I doubt your numbers.

 

[Loki]

I also don't play shell games. Wanna buy a car? I am not going to tell you what's under the hood so I can get as many sales before shipment.
GG

pfffht... that is dumbest thing I have ever heard.. I mean.. clearly.. nobody buys a car based on the engine.. what kind of mad mad world are you living in? It's all about the colour son.


:shocked:

 

[GGman]

that too.

 

[MovieSwede]

When you buy a cam, buy it because you like the images it produces.

 

[mmm]

When you buy a cam, buy it because you like the images it produces.

...but how many pre-orders have been placed on the HVX? People are very trusting of Pany, I hope the HVX lives up to their expectations. 89% certain it will.

 

[burningeye]

Absolutely, it's all about the image. I always ask, when trying out new gear, "Does this shoulder mount make my hips looks fat?" or "Is this lens shade not big enough for my dayrate?"