HDV tapes just a marketing ploy?

lordybob

lordybob

Well-known member
Are HDV mini dv tapes just the same as regular tapes?

If so is it worth paying that extra amount for a larger HDV tape case and sparkly "HD" wasjigs?

Just a thing i heard.

Prove me wrong!
 
Maybe, but ask yourself this. Do you really want to risk losing some irreplacable shots, possibly on a paying gig, just because you didn't want to pay a few bucks more?

I'm not defending HDV tapes. In fact I've experienced massive dropouts on one after a full day of shooting (thankfully it was salvagable). But when it comes down to it I'm still willing to fork up the extra cash. The only way we can really be sure if HDV tape is better than regular tape is to shoot thousands of hours on both types and then compare the number, but who's going to bother?
 
its like the difference between regular, panasonic pq tapes and the AMQ master tapes. better magnetic density on the tape itself. MiniDV is not an archive medium. its an acqusition medium. for constant working of footage most places bump it to Beta or DigiBeta because the quality of the tape is so much better, more robust, and can be run trhough a deck 50 times before it starts getting wonky. Mini Dv tapes get wonky after 3-4 runs through a machine. its difficult to get consistent results. this is why panasonic made the AMQ's. they were ment to be "master" tapes that could hold up to repeated deck runs. or so they are supposed to......
 
It all depends on your tolerance for dropouts, and the crushing severity of a dropout on HDV. On DV it wasn't that big of a deal; a dropout might glitch five or six tiny little blocks on the frame for maybe one frame, maybe two. On HDV it causes an entire half a second of footage to just disappear. I just got hit with a dropout on my HV20, and it reminded me why I have so little affection for this format! If what you're shooting is irreplaceable, you'd be quite foolish to skimp on the tape you use to record it.
 
What exactly would a dropout on HDV look like? I've had these mystery flashes of red that last like 9-11 frames, completely filling most of those frames. JVC replaced my camera without a question, but nobody ever defined the problem.
 
I have stuff where the motion freezes or jitters for a slight moment, it might be the half second, and then it continues. Using AY-DVM63AMQ.
 
On Sony or Canon HDV, everything freezes for 15 solid frames. 1/2 second of footage just disappears.

On the JVC it is different, it doesn't lock up the whole frame, instead it'll glitch to some degree or other, but the glitch will stay constant throughout a 6 or 12 frame GOP, so 1/4 to 1/5 second depending on your frame rate.
 
If it were dropped frames the capture software would show the number of dropped frames but it has not.
 
I personally do not notice any reliability difference between VERY expensive digital master tapes and cheapo Maxell tapes from the leading department stores... i seem to get the same number of dropouts with both... which is about one per every five tapes.

But if you are really concerned about dropouts and and other such problems, get yourself a firestore drive... problem solved!
 
I've been using Sony Premium tapes over 80 hours with my XHA1. Only two drops this far and both of them were near the tape end (over 61 minutes). But, I'm importing all stuff from A1, which is the best way to avoid dropouts (but not the best for cam's heads).
 
P_J said:
But, I'm importing all stuff from A1, which is the best way to avoid dropouts (but not the best for cam's heads).
Click to expand...

Dropouts are inherent on the tape track and it will be there whether you use the A1 or another camera to capture.
 
jade8472 said:
Dropouts are inherent on the tape track and it will be there whether you use the A1 or another camera to capture.
Click to expand...
That's true for dropouts which has recorded to tape, but also playback could produce dropouts. Although it's possible to try re-capture those parts again. But you're right that it doesn't matter what cam is used for capturing. What I really meant was that I haven't mix tapes with other camcorders with my capturing device (A1). Same tape brand etc..
 
I've used over 70 Sony DVM63HD and 85HD and had ZERO dropouts. Moreover I pass the cost of $100 to $150 in tapes per event onto the client. They get the best footage with no drropouts period. I use the 63HD for 90% of events and the 85HD for Catholic weddings and longer plays etc... Why risk it? A $10 tape or a bad referral?
 
lordybob said:
Are HDV mini dv tapes just the same as regular tapes?

If so is it worth paying that extra amount for a larger HDV tape case and sparkly "HD" wasjigs?

Just a thing i heard.

Prove me wrong!
Click to expand...


I recently operated camera on a show for A&E shot in HDV on the HD100 and they used only regular DV tapes. Apparently they did some testing of the HDV tapes and determined that it wasn't worth the extra cost when the regular DV tapes performed just as well.
 
I was told that the Master quality miniDV tapes (about $10 each) are identical to the HDV tapes (about $20 each). The idea is supposedly that the Master quality tapes are stronger and more resistant to dropouts than the regular miniDV tapes...but the Master quality tapes are JUST AS ROBUST as HDV tapes. Truth or fiction...we may never know. And aren't they discontinuing Master quality tapes? If so, maybe this is exactly the reason why (they compete with a more expensive product)?
 
futureman said:
I personally do not notice any reliability difference between VERY expensive digital master tapes and cheapo Maxell tapes from the leading department stores... i seem to get the same number of dropouts with both... which is about one per every five tapes.

But if you are really concerned about dropouts and and other such problems, get yourself a firestore drive... problem solved!
Click to expand...

well, i can tell ya, was about to put up some hdv downconverted to SD for some youtube incubus drum covers, and man, i wasted twenty minutes because when i pop the camera into hdv mode, i get 1 or 2 drop outs per 5 minutes of recording... damn thing, should just keep it sd.
 
most Dv tapes will perform about the same on the first run through the camera. Its the 2nd, third, fourth.... tenth... etc that the extra quality makes the difference. its the editing stage that effects most people. this doesnt effect indies really because once the project is ingested into the workflow, thats ususally the last time a private individual will use the tape. they then use the digital files and work with that. but an AD ajency, or someplace that edits vertical advertising where they continually reuse footage, and dont keep it stored in HDD systems, will benefit from the "master" qualit tape. High end editors bump DV to Beta, because beta tapes are VERY robust. they can survivie 30 - 40 - 50 viewings without problems.

DV is acquisition. Not really archive.
 
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