HD100 vs HVX200 vs XL H1 vs HDFX
- Thread starter magji2000
- Start date
mmm, I think Barry meant that the development of tape is over, thus agreeing with you....
Personally, I agree that the show on R&D for tape is virtually over, but I'm quite sure they're still doing some development, as to protect their investment in tape-formats. Not on a huge scale, but it's a little to soon R&D is ended on the formats.
Tapeless is the future, no doubt, but what will it be? P2 is a good contender, but not quite yet. Perhaps it's too early and that technology might die before it has reached its peak. What I mean to say is that P2 is too soon here for the price and storage capacity it can deliver. P2 could be a succes in 3 to 5 years, but it has to survive that long. No easy task. The HDD solutions JVC are choosing are safer, because they're affordable and available. It's just for aquisition, though, no storage solution yet... Some DVD/disc thing then... We'll have to see...
Personally, I agree that the show on R&D for tape is virtually over, but I'm quite sure they're still doing some development, as to protect their investment in tape-formats. Not on a huge scale, but it's a little to soon R&D is ended on the formats.
Tapeless is the future, no doubt, but what will it be? P2 is a good contender, but not quite yet. Perhaps it's too early and that technology might die before it has reached its peak. What I mean to say is that P2 is too soon here for the price and storage capacity it can deliver. P2 could be a succes in 3 to 5 years, but it has to survive that long. No easy task. The HDD solutions JVC are choosing are safer, because they're affordable and available. It's just for aquisition, though, no storage solution yet... Some DVD/disc thing then... We'll have to see...
Forget those P2 cards, Thompson and Iomega have a much better, way cheaper idea:
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=34598
They've launched the first HiDef camera that records to this format at IBC, no doubt the camera isn't cheap but the media sure is and it's not proprietary. Drives to read it are also cheap. Around $70 to hold 40mins of HD. I guess if your really stuck using P2 cards then these drives would be the ideal thing to dump it to.
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=34598
They've launched the first HiDef camera that records to this format at IBC, no doubt the camera isn't cheap but the media sure is and it's not proprietary. Drives to read it are also cheap. Around $70 to hold 40mins of HD. I guess if your really stuck using P2 cards then these drives would be the ideal thing to dump it to.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Were you joking here? Because the guys at focus either know nothing about this or are being coy about it. They said "Where did you hear this rumor? Currently, the largest 2.5" drive that supports our performance specs is 100GB which equates to about 90 minutes of DVCPRO HD." They also say "It is either 1080i or 720p.Barry_Green said:
-Nate
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
mmm said:
Once again guys we are not talking about video, we are talking about data (ie 10101010101010). Video tape (aka analog tape) is dead or dying. Data tape is alive and well and is the most economical way to back up data-bar none. Tape is not going away for digital video camera's or companies risk management strategies. Do you see it's one in the same????
The one and only thing that will make tape go away is if the data throughput needs reach beyond the physical limitations of tape speed or actual tape size. Tape is the most economical way to store/archive data and that holds true for video as well as your checking account information at the bank.
There are alot of other strategies in place for computer backup in place now across the corporate world. Some of these strategies are making their way into video cameras. XDCam is the new avatar for Magneto Optical. P2 is the new avatar for Flash Cards. These technologies are nothing new in the computer world but they are migrating to digital video. Nevertheless, tape is still the risk management strategy of choice across the board.
I think sometimes it's easy to forget that when camera's went digital, they just became computers with eyes. However, the data is still computer data. It'd be nice if this issue would quit getting mixed up.
MMM this is not aimed at you specifically, It is aimed at the community with the best intention.
best,
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, I wasn't joking, but I also said "should". It is certainly possible that they could design it so that it would store four hours -- just like how a P2 card can store only active frames (which is how it can store 20 minutes of 720/24p but only 8 minutes of 1080/60i) they should also be able to make the Firestore store 250 minutes of 720/24p or 100 minutes of 1080/60i.Nathyn said:
Now, if they don't, well, that's just a huge wasted opportunity. I would find it very hard to believe that they wouldn't implement the active-frame recording scheme.
But trying to push to much can be a dangerous thing. Portable hard drives, I know that they have made great leaps and bounds but the durability of the format will always be an issue. On big money shoots, the risk factor is just to high to trust with out back up tape. Tell a big budget movie producer that your going to shoot the movie that they are paying millions for on a hard disk, they will say yeah but make sure you back it up to guess what? Tape. Bottom line is its here to stay for a long time. And tape can be digital or analog, that last guy's comment about data tape was way off, tape is tape not analog or digital and analog has been mostly pretty much dead for the past few years so I don't know how that perspective came into the mix "no offense" I am just trying to be clear on the arguement thats all. Anyway for news and stuff, hard drives are great, but for serious production work, tape is here to stay. I have experience also in reality TV (the biggest name shows too), and I can tell you this, the way tapes are logged and the long shooting days all over the place, tapes is a system that works best, especially when you have a two to three cameras going its proven reliable, easy and fast to work with in the field. It they shot it on hard drives, that would be a nightmare to manage after, I mean it is workable, but tape can be long fast with out doing much to the media itself. With hard drives you going that have to transfer long, they you need a whole computer system to backup and its just a lot of extra work, espcially when window dubs are still the way to work when the directors and producers edit, they don't sit in the editing room to much.
stephenlnoe said:
I didn't take it as being aimed at me... surely are statements agree..?!
As for the digital/analogue thing - forget it, apart from the occassional (and much detested) BetaSP, analogue is gone... oh, and I guess film could be considered "analogue." I certainly don't confuse the two at all. I am always having to tell people off off for saying "digitizing" DV/HDV/DVCPRO footage from tape though :grin:
Tape is still the most cost effective system for many workflows, however this will change. Big Brother 30 will probably have every one of their 40 HD cameras captured uncompressed on a single desktop sized RAID. They will then have a second redundant backup. It will be far smaller, cheaper, faster, more convenient and safer than tape... and 100% compatible!
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
magji2000 said:
No offense taken. You are right, tape is tape, however, the reference was to recording analog compaired to digital. Analog taping is dying, but tape is not. Also the parallel with computer backup was pointed out which you've supported with your statements. We're saying the same things but I'm breaking it down to the acquisition format itself. This has been an ongoing discussion for a while.