HD let down?

meddesigner

Active member
Well I now have both the HVX DVD that Panasonic sent and the HDV that Sony sent. It is very disappointing that there is no footage shot with the HVX on the Panasonic DVD. It gives me pause for thought when considering their product – is there some sort of deception going on?

As far as the HDV DVD I was not super impressed. I watched both the down converted material on my plasma off my DVD player and the high def Windows Media Files on my PC although I am a Mac snob.

The material on my plasma was all right but not ground breaking and the material played back from the Windows Media Files was all right but there were some compression artifacts and some sort of strobe in shots that panned. The image latterly shifted in sections at a time then reassembled itself a moment later.

I will reserve judgment on the HVX till I see some real material but have to wonder about all the delays and the lack of material to view. Another problem is that when you look at this material and compare it to the stuff on INHD or Discovery HD I think we will all be very disappointed. To get that level of quality we will have to spend $$$$$. If that is what it takes so be it. There might be some level of misrepresentation to call these cameras High Def based solely on the fact they can record 720p or 1080i.

If it does not look that much better than a DVX or not as good as a 2/3” SD camera then why bother and why make the investment in the technology that is only going to lead to disappointment in the end results?

My main point is after reading this form for the last few months I think we might be expecting too much from this/these new cameras, as it really will not be able to compete with it’s higher priced siblings. I guess it is time to consider an HDX-400 for HD or an SDX-900 for SD.

Any thoughts?
 
Somebody is a pessimist


For me, this camera will be worth the extra dough for the following reasons,

1. p2
2. Widescreen chips
3. Slow motion
4. 5 different formats to choose from
5. True HD, not this HDV crap that takes 2 days to output
6. The microwave feature
 
On Creative Cow, a "newsflash", a guy was using an HDV camera for HBO. I would imagine DVCPRO HD shot with the HVX200 would be acceptable for HBO as well. Why the HVX200?? I am an independent producer who shoots and edits my own projects. I self-fund everything. I was ready to roll on some projects shooting with my DVX100. I will now shoot them with the HVX200. I do not want or need a $65,000 camera nor the payments that come along with them. Plus I am now able to shoot some true HD feature promos where the Vari-Speed feature will come in handy, not to mention the higher quality chromakeys I can shoot. No the HVX200 won't be for everybody and the DVX100 was not for everybody. I saw the light 3 years ago and cannot wait to get my hands on the HVX200.
 
meddesigner said:
Any thoughts?
I wish there was a way for camera manufacturers to distribute HD footage from their cameras -- but, there isn't. Okay, okay, okay, I know about H.264 and Windows Media 9, but that doesn't really help me considering my computer is not plugged in to my HDTV...
 
meddesigner said:
If it does not look that much better than a DVX or not as good as a 2/3” SD camera then why bother and why make the investment in the technology that is only going to lead to disappointment in the end results?

And if it does not look better than the DVX, not many would buy it.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here?

It was well known when the HVX200 promo DVD was released it was purely
a promotional overview with no actual HVX footage. Like Barry said, the DV Expo
show is only a week away. I'm sure we'll soon see some actual footage.

Steve
 
rgdfilms said:
6. The microwave feature

Gotta second Emanuel on that. I'm sick and tired of having to pack an extra appliance to warm eggs and coffee. Starting next month I'll just head to my production bag.

I'm betting that bacon will fit pretty good into those P2 slots.

This camera is gonna rock. :) :)
 
Even if 720p is only a little better than shooting standard SD with a DVX, the variable frame rate feature is a huge advantage. In practically every project I've worked on over the last two years, I've been either speeding up or slowing down time in post w/ footage from a DVX. It doesn't look terrible, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as native slow or fast motion from a varicam (which I've seen firsthand). This is one of the main reasons I'm getting the camera, for the variable frame rates. Sure, the image will look better than a DVX and we'll find out just how much very soon, but variable frame rates really expand the possibilities whether you're doing narratives, docs, or events.
 
meddesigner said:
Well I now have both the HVX DVD that Panasonic sent and the HDV that Sony sent. It is very disappointing that there is no footage shot with the HVX on the Panasonic DVD. It gives me pause for thought when considering their product – is there some sort of deception going on?

As far as the HDV DVD I was not super impressed. I watched both the down converted material on my plasma off my DVD player and the high def Windows Media Files on my PC although I am a Mac snob.

The material on my plasma was all right but not ground breaking and the material played back from the Windows Media Files was all right but there were some compression artifacts and some sort of strobe in shots that panned. The image latterly shifted in sections at a time then reassembled itself a moment later.

I will reserve judgment on the HVX till I see some real material but have to wonder about all the delays and the lack of material to view. Another problem is that when you look at this material and compare it to the stuff on INHD or Discovery HD I think we will all be very disappointed. To get that level of quality we will have to spend $$$$$. If that is what it takes so be it. There might be some level of misrepresentation to call these cameras High Def based solely on the fact they can record 720p or 1080i.

If it does not look that much better than a DVX or not as good as a 2/3” SD camera then why bother and why make the investment in the technology that is only going to lead to disappointment in the end results?

My main point is after reading this form for the last few months I think we might be expecting too much from this/these new cameras, as it really will not be able to compete with it’s higher priced siblings. I guess it is time to consider an HDX-400 for HD or an SDX-900 for SD.

Any thoughts?

Just be patient dude. You couldn't expect any footage on the DVD. The first grab was released a week ago. So, just be patient.

Just like Barry Said, it is coming out in a week.
 
Yes.. DV expo is gonna be a great week for alot of us. The ball will be rolling and we should see alot more information and footage then we can handle, enough to keep us distracted for the 2 more weeks till the HVX hits the shelves.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Version 3 will have footage on it.

Thanks,

Jan

That's good to hear.
Can we from overseas benefit from it as well? I mean, can you guys send the DVD to people living abroad?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
 
Fidel,
Took the words out of my mouth!!!

Jan/Anyone,
Yep just wondering how I can get my hands on v3 of the HD DVD when it's available... I'm happy to do the BMW Films thing and pay you $5 for shipping it out to me if I have to!!!

Cheers, Nathan.
 
Let me pose a scenario.

You shoot a feature. in 1080P.

Now you edit, and polish and finish it to your hearts content.

Now you get a deal to distribute it Diret to DVD or soemthing.

With the HDdvd discs that are coming out, wont your film be HIGHLY cmpressed in 1080P mode??? therefore wouldnt shooting 720P make your work smaller, and less suceptible to having the benefits of 1080P lost due to compression?

i read some where, about the HD format wars that was happening in network HD broadcasting, where they were desciding on whether to broadcast 720P or 1080i
and how despite the numbers, somehow, 720P provides a picture as good as 1080i/p because it will be less compressed when broadcast.

i cant find it now.

is compresion very severe with 1080 programming. i have had little contact with HD.

like maybe that DVD tht you guys watched was Extremely compressed, and thats why youre not impressed.
 
@meddesigner

How are you watching and comparing footage of a dvd anyway. It can give you an idea, but its downrezzed to SD and then compressed to mpeg2.
So I think you can't make a judgement on footage like that.
WMV or QT files could be better, but how where they compressed?
If you really want to judge, go to store and hook the cam up a decent monitor.
Oh no, wait. The output doesn't show the compression used for recording. HDV or DVCpro, doesn't matter.
Oh well...
 
OliverM said:
@meddesigner
If you really want to judge, go to store and hook the cam up a decent monitor.
Oh no, wait. The output doesn't show the compression used for recording. HDV or DVCpro, doesn't matter.

A good idea, just make sure that you record something, and then play it back. Make sure that hyou have something f interest in front of the camera and if you really want to compare cameras put them theough a bit of trial. Most professional dealers will work with you on this idea.

Best,

Jan
 
Barry says footage out in a week and Jarred says it will be on sale in two weeks. Am I the only one who thinks there is something strange with that?
 
Barry i think was referring to the Expo. Which i believe is next Friday or Thursday?

I'm sure whatever footage is shown there will make its way to the internet in one form or other.
 
Some of us have seen footage, projected by Jan from an unfinshed camera in 720p.
The footage was impressive..so I'm sure the finshed camera will not dissapoint for this price point.
 
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