Has the 7D exceeded, matched or fallen short of one's expectations ?

[Ian-T]

marco...polo....I'm with you on all points!!

 

[ydgmdlu]

To me, the image is more important than features. All I need is control of aperture, shutter and framerate. I like the image from the 7D far more than the image from an EX1/HPX with an adapter. It's crisper, with less chromatic aberration, better sharpness at the edges, and I can save a few stops of light. The way a ground glass renders bokeh is hit or miss. It never looks quite right.

Think of the 7D as using a film camera. All you get is a sensor and manual control of aperture, shutter and framerate. How many more features do you really need to make a great image? How many more features would you find on a film camera?

- I don't care about not having timecode.
- I don't care about zebras/waveform; I know how to expose an image, and I can buy an external monitor with exposure assist if I really want to.
- I don't care about long recording times; I'm used to 11 min. for a 400 ft. roll of 16mm.
- I don't care about the small size; I can bulk up the camera if I need to stabilize it.


What I feel would improve these cameras greatly is:

- Reduced rolling shutter artifacts
- More framerate options
- Viewing shutter as degree in addition to seconds


That's pretty much it. I know that ENG users want timecode, longer recording times, etc. But I believe that ENG users also want motorized zoom lenses, increased depth of field (i.e. smaller sensors), etc. And plenty of great cameras exist that serve that purpose.

I am thrilled that the 7D exists because it is so simple and straight to the point, and that's what I want as a cinematographer.


Marco

Brilliant, man! Agreed on all counts! :beer:

 

[ydgmdlu]

But if you're talking about an actual HPX300 or EX1 or HPX170 with a big chip in it, having all the other features that they already have, then yeah, I doubt anyone would want to put up with an adapter if they don't have to.

The image that comes from the ground glass of an adapter has a distinctly different quality than that of a large-chip camera (such as a DSLR). There are those who swear by that particularly quality (even considering the usability trade-offs) and will keep the adapter market alive, however small it may eventually become.

 

[mhood]

I bought a case of Sony DVM60PRLs last month...

 

[J Davis]

Maybe when the camcorder form factor starts using ASP-c sized CMOS and interchangeable lens mounts then DSLR's will go back to being DSLR's.

We could be enjoying only a brief transitional period.

 

[reem12]

Maarco I totaly agree with you and doubt if asked that anyone would choose time code, or all the extra eng perks on a dedicated video cam over a more visualy pleasing image for narrative work. So coose your poison. An astonishing image with the wow factor without the eng trimmings or a decent image with the trimmings but not the same wow factor. I love them both but for what I love most which is narratives. They can just give me the raw beauty of the 5d and 7d and 24 p and I would still use this over a Ex1, and hvx adapter combo for my purposes. But I would prefer the video cam for wedding shoots, due to its more robust capabilities.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I'm new to this thread and just looking into the 7D. I'm just shocked to read this...

It seriously doesn't have zebras? I know that's not a make it or break it deal but my cheap old HV20 has multiple zebra settings. What gives?

When out and about we don't always have time for external monitors. The zebra function is nice when all you have to look at is a tiny LCD display.

Like I said, not a deal breaker with me but I have to say that I'm really surprised by this omission.

MAH

 

[Lucian]

I'm new to this thread and just looking into the 7D. I'm just shocked to read this...

It seriously doesn't have zebras? I know that's not a make it or break it deal but my cheap old HV20 has multiple zebra settings. What gives?

It's doesn't have zebras yet, but the hackers and crackers gonna fix that pretty soon I expect. They cracked the 5d and got manual control of the audio, zebras and histogram.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It's doesn't have zebras yet, but the hackers and crackers gonna fix that pretty soon I expect. They cracked the 5d and got manual control of the audio, zebras and histogram.

Do you have to void the warranty to do that sort of thing or is it easily obtainable?

Sounds like a plan.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Do you have to void the warranty to do that sort of thing or is it easily obtainable?

Sounds like a plan.

The Magic Lantern custom firmware currently makes no permanent modifications to the camera. In fact, it makes no modification at all; the firmware boots from the Compact Flash card. Remove the card, and the camera goes back to normal.

 

[Barry_Green]

Like I said, not a deal breaker with me but I have to say that I'm really surprised by this omission.

It is a still camera. First and foremost, primarily, that is its reason for being. Oh, and it also shoots video too. Keep those priorities, those raisons d'etre in mind, and it will make a lot more sense. But it is not a video camera. No, it doesn't have zebras, and it doesn't even have a headphone jack to monitor audio with, and you can't disable the automatic audio gain, you can't execute a simple power zoom, you can't autofocus while shooting, and about a million other compromises and ignored features. Wait until you try plugging in a monitor, for example...

I don't know how these DSLRs got elevated in peoples' heads that they're somehow the be-all and end-all. They're lousy as camcorders but they happen to produce great, even astonishingly excellent shallow-DOF images. And they are cheap. Those are the bonuses. Other than that, they're pretty lousy as camcorders. The 7D can't even record longer than 12 minutes, it overheats too, and its 720p has horrific aliasing. It is not a well-rounded product.

But like the GH1, when they are in their "happy zone," the results are magical.

I say this as the happy owner of a GH1 and the proud owner of a 7D that's supposed to arrive today. But I don't look at these as a replacement for a proper video camera! They're a single-purpose special-purpose tool, not a well-rounded centerpiece of a production.

 

[Barry_Green]

The Magic Lantern custom firmware currently makes no permanent modifications to the camera. In fact, it makes no modification at all; the firmware boots from the Compact Flash card. Remove the card, and the camera goes back to normal.

Very, very much looking forward to a 7D version of Magic Lantern.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It is a still camera. First and foremost, primarily, that is its reason for being. Oh, and it also shoots video too. Keep those priorities, those raisons d'etre in mind, and it will make a lot more sense. But it is not a video camera. No, it doesn't have zebras, and it doesn't even have a headphone jack to monitor audio with, and you can't disable the automatic audio gain, you can't execute a simple power zoom, you can't autofocus while shooting, and about a million other compromises and ignored features. Wait until you try plugging in a monitor, for example...

I don't know how these DSLRs got elevated in peoples' heads that they're somehow the be-all and end-all. They're lousy as camcorders but they happen to produce great shallow-DOF images. And they are cheap. Those are the bonuses. Other than that, they're pretty lousy as camcorders. The 7D can't even record longer than 12 minutes, it overheats too, and its 720p has horrific aliasing. It is not a well-rounded product.

But like the GH1, when it's in its happy zone, the results are magical.

I say this as the happy owner of a GH1 and the proud owner of a 7D that's supposed to arrive today. But I don't look at these as a replacement for a proper video camera! They're a single-purpose special-purpose tool, not a well-rounded centerpiece of a production.

Like I said, not a deal breaker by any stretch. I was just surprised by a camera that shoots video (and costs almost twice what my HV20 cost me) and doesn't have zebras. Something I guess hackers can accomplish fairly easily. So why don't they add it in a firmware upgrade? Who knows, maybe they will.

I've seen some ads and everyone seem to be pushing the video aspect. That's why I was surprised.
No matter. The price is right and the results seem to be quite stunning.

Like I said, not expecting the holy grail. Just some standard video options. No biggie.

 

[Mark Harris]

But I don't look at these as a replacement for a proper video camera! They're a single-purpose special-purpose tool, not a well-rounded centerpiece of a production.

Agreed. That's why I'm so thrilled with this little guy. I know exactly what I want out of it, and for that, it's almost the perfect little tool. I have no expectations of it doing broadcast work, or competing with a RED or whatever else. I will probably shoot shorts on it from now on, and use it in various scenarios on my features where it makes sense, etc.

Another bonus is that it's fast as all heck and small. These are real benefits to the indie narrative crowd(Which is where these cams excel, I think). Less lighting, less rigging, smaller dolly, smaller jib, smaller everything.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I have no expectations of it doing broadcast work, or competing with a RED or whatever else.

Was someone comparing it to the RED!??

Do you own one yet, Mark?
Can't wait to see what you do with it.

Mike

 

[Mark Harris]

Was someone comparing it to the RED!??

ha ha, for some real entertainment, take a stroll over to reduser. Some of those folks are acting like Canon beat up their grandmas.

Do you own one yet, Mark?
Can't wait to see what you do with it.

Mike

Yeah, got it on Monday. Glad I didn't order from wherever Barry did. Using my GF's lenses now, as she's an EOS girl.

Going to use it on something real soon.

 

[Barry_Green]

I "ordered" from TigerDirect, but I got tired of waiting on their nonsense. Instead someone posted that a local camera shop in Michigan had one, so I ordered there and three days later it's showing up today.

 

[Barry_Green]

So why don't they add it in a firmware upgrade? Who knows, maybe they will.

Because, by and large, camera manufacturers simply do not add features in firmware updates. Canon's said that they simply do not do that -- they save new features for new models (and yes, I'm well aware that Canon did add manual control to the 5DMkII in a firmware update, a move that the product manager for Canon said was shocking and he would have bet money that they'd never, ever, ever do that.) Panasonic doesn't add features via firmware updates either -- well, they added flash-band compensation to the HPX300, but that's about it. And Sony doesn't add features either. It just isn't "done".

But Tramm Hudson can add 'em... and that's what we're all hoping for.

 

[Drew Ott]

No not really and I'm not selling my DVX100b for it. I think it is a pretty nice camera but you still really need to have it on a tripod or some support. No flip out LCD will make it harder to work. No XLR etc,etc The video when done right is awesome. (so is the D90 & D300s). Seems to be some overheating and other issues too. Really I can't see why anyone would sell their DVXs or HVXs etc to only use this camera or the D300s for video only. Hang on to them just incase!

But at this point in the game I really need a upgrade on my Nikons for photography and I have a big investment in nikon glass. I just don't see it as a good choice to jump ship ....yet.

Zim. Please dude. Please.

 

[Zim]

Go back a few post and read what Barry Green had to say. I'm passing on the D300s and the 7D for video. I don't need anything that bad right now. I'll see what is next out or a price drop later.

Zim. Please dude. Please.