Has anyone used the Marantz PMD661

E

ecd

Member
I'm looking at this over the Tascam dr100 but there's one thing I haven't been able to definitively find out. Like the Tascam, are you able to output from the Marantz recorder directly into the camera so I don't have to sync in post? I see the only real out on the recorder are an RCA out. If it's possible, what cable would I need?
 
I'm not too worried about that guys issue. Right now I just plan on using the Rode VideoMic plugged into the 3.5mm jack so I don't have to worry about phantom power/xlr issues. I'm going to be using the GH2 with the recorder. Is there something like that Sescom (for zoom h4n) cable that'll plug into the GH2?
 
Why would you destroy the audio by running it into the camera rather than take the literally 45 seconds (If you DON'T have a slate about 15 if you do) it takes to sync a clip.
 
How does it destroy the audio by running it into the camera?

:edit: For any other shoot I might not care but I'm doing a 24hr film fest in a couple of weeks and I don't want to run into any unexpected headaches that might occur with syncing issues.
 
ecd said:
How does it destroy the audio by running it into the camera?

:edit: For any other shoot I might not care but I'm doing a 24hr film fest in a couple of weeks and I don't want to run into any unexpected headaches that might occur with syncing issues.
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Because it's like recording a Blu Ray to a VHS tape.

I guess I can see doing it on a 24 film fest just because time is SO limited. The fact you're even bothering to boom will probably put you in the top 25% of audio quality based on most of the 24/48 hour films I've seen.
 
Does that occur with all devices of processing the sound through a recorder and passed directly into the camera or is it PMD661 specific? That's the first I read about it reducing the audio quality so significantly.
 
The recorder doesn't matter, it's the quality of the audio built into the camera. It has a very high noise floor.
Audio gurus may correct me, but as far as I know nothing you do externally will fix the fact that the audio technology inside the camera is basically junk.

Again, on a 24 hour film fest where the 30 or 45 minutes total it may take to sync the audio matters it might be OK just because the fact you even care about audio will put you in the top 1/4 of audio quality, but I wouldn't do it on anything where time wasn't super critical.
 
Yes the onboard audio on every DSLR Ive used is terrible, pretty much no matter how it was fed in. Those cameras do their own pre-amping and processing on the audio (even worse if you cant disable the auto gain control depending on what hardware or camera youre using) that always makes the audio sound like it was caputred by a small tinny crappy device. Capturing audio off the camera using just about ANY means will always be better IMO.

That being said I had the Marantz PMD661 for a couple months and IMO its about the best option in its price range if you need XLR inputs and phantom power. Very well thought out machine, very easy to navigate and understand menu and worlds better than the overly popular Zoom H4n in every way. However, if you are just planning on using a boomed Rode VideoMic (hopefully the Pro version) then you could probably get away with feeding what into something like the Sony PCM-M10 and get about the same quality sound. If you could step it up a notch, go with the Marantz PMD661 and a boomed Audio-Technia AT875R.

But yea, either way, get that audio off the camera! Use a clapper and sync in post. It really doesnt take any time worth noting and will instantly make you video more pleasuable to watch than ALL of those that didnt.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
The recorder doesn't matter, it's the quality of the audio built into the camera. It has a very high noise floor.
Audio gurus may correct me, but as far as I know nothing you do externally will fix the fact that the audio technology inside the camera is basically junk.

Again, on a 24 hour film fest where the 30 or 45 minutes total it may take to sync the audio matters it might be OK just because the fact you even care about audio will put you in the top 1/4 of audio quality, but I wouldn't do it on anything where time wasn't super critical.
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This is not entirely true. In the 5D for instance you can turn the gain all the way down manually to only 1 click above the bottom and you are no longer depending on the camera's gain or noise floor. It becomes merely a bit catcher like any other at that point. If you run a device with clean gain into it you should be fine. Since the Marantz has decent pre-amps and a good noise floor you should be good. Further I would run dual sound. One on the recorder, one in the camera. This way you have synced files and if there is a quality issue, you have a backup. Not only that but if you leave the Marantz running all the time in the background, any adjustment you make on camera like changing a lens will not necessarily impede the capture of dialogue.

With regards to the other question, there is a -25dB on the cable you referred to as theoretically the H4N’s (or any field recorder’s headphone output) output is line level and needs to be attenuated in order to go into a mic level input which is much lower in voltage.
 
Unless GH2 takes line level inputs, you are indeed "destroying" the audio quality. In fact, even if GH2 could take line level inputs, a dedicated recorder, like what you have, does a much better job in preserving the audio quality of your mic. If you use a high-end mic, I'd say forget about using your camera to record audio. Well, if your mic is not much better than a piece of junk, then how you record audio doesn't matter any more, for a recorder can only struggle to reduce the loss of the audio quality originated from your mic.

As far as I'm concerned, avoiding sync'ing audio in post is preferred only if there are significant drifts in audio recording that don't have a workaround.

You can use a RCA-to-mini adapter and a line-matching cable to convert your recorder output to a mic-level output. After that, you can treat it just like you would do with a Rode VideoMic.
 
yoclay said:
This is not entirely true. In the 5D for instance you can turn the gain all the way down manually to only 1 click above the bottom and you are no longer depending on the camera's gain or noise floor. It becomes merely a bit catcher like any other at that point.
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To qualify as a "bit catcher" or "bit bucket", it has to take digital input. These cameras take analog inputs, and use their internal A/D converters to turn the analog signal into bits... another weak-ish link in the chain.

The reality is that sending a hotter signal, thus allowing the camera's input gain to be minimized, does reduce the noise floor. It's still going through the camera's pre-amps, and still using the camera's A/D. It still results in a signal that is not quite as good as what can be attained through second-system recording. Some folks find this to be perfectly acceptable... for independent/hobby projects, and "good enough for news" (where quality often matters less than audibility... if it can be heard and understood, it's fine).

If you have an external recorder, the headphone-out through the padded cable is a little hinky in my opinion. Headphone outputs are rarely the best option for signal flow to anything other than headphones. Honestly, if you already have the recorder, then using it to record is going to be your best option. Get a dumb slate ($40 or less) and syncing the files in post will take very little time. In fact, if you have some one on your team who can function as a DIT, then they can spend time during the production phase clearing off media cards from both the camera and recorder, and syncing the files so that they're ready to go for the edit.

If you're absolutely sold on recording in-camera, you may be better suited with an XLR converter: BeachTek, JuicedLink... or even (best option) the Sound Devices MixPre-D, which has a mic-level output via 3-pin mini-XLR made just for DSLR recording. And if you can rent a MixPre-D for now, and avoid purchasing something that is suited only for this one project, you may be better off in the long run.
 
yoclay said:
In the 5D for instance you can turn the gain all the way down manually to only 1 click above the bottom and you are no longer depending on the camera's gain or noise floor. It becomes merely a bit catcher like any other at that point. If you run a device with clean gain into it you should be fine.
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I don't have numbers to demonstrate my point. But I'd rather assume 5D Mark II's circuit and algorithm in processing audio output from Marantz and writing it into a compressed video file cannot be as good as Marantz's circuit and algorithm in dumping the digitized output signals directly into an uncompressed audio file. In other words, I'd rather believe a good dedicated audio recorder is able to preserve audio quality (which is limited to the audio quality of the mic being used) better than any of today's SLR cameras including 5D. Though, with a low-end mic, this may or may matter in reality.
 
I have the PMD661. It's built solid, easy to navigate menus and the big oled screen is nice. However, I have a few beefs with it. The headphone volume doesn't get very loud and reading the meters can be hard to see when it's around your neck.
 
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