Hand Sanitizer available now

B

Barry_Green

Moderator
Totally off topic, but -- seriously, I haven't seen this stuff available anywhere, not once, for months, not in stores, not online, not in Costco...

Just For Men (the haircolor company) has a sister company called Williams, which started making 80% alcohol hand sanitizer gel and also wipes. $3.99/bottle, minimum order 6, made in the USA.
https://www.justformen.com/williams-hand-sanitizer-gel.html

I pre-ordered some several weeks ago when they first announced it, and it came this week. I ordered some more yesterday and they just sent me a tracking number. So it's in stock and shipping now. If you need it, or have elderly folks who need it like I do, this is a source that's selling it directly to the customer.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Soap + water > hand sanitizer. Soap + water available at most stores.
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Soap + water not all that convenient when you have to go places and pick up stuff and you want your hands clean NOW. Especially when you're 80+ and your immune system's trashed because you just got off chemotherapy, and you have to drive because there's nobody else who can, and you have to go pick up prescriptions, like my mother-in-law does. So she needs this stuff. And I'm sure others do too.

Look, if you're not interested, that's fine, don't post, but mocking an announcement that may be valuable to those of us who have elderly relatives (or others at high risk) is just not cool.
 
You caught my deleted post. I thought better of mocking someone who was mocking others. It just piled onto the problem, so I deleted it. But then ... what in the wide world of sports are you thinking Eric?
 
There's a jury-rigged solution, which involves spraying a sheet of paper towel with a disinfectant for the on-the-go safety in mind.

Any bathroom disinfectant, diluted enough, can do (otherwise, a stronger concentration can cause skin irritation). An inexpensive cologne will do as well. If one stores these napkins in a plastic or, better yet, glass case, a typical DIY wet-nap can last for a couple of hours until it evaporates/dries up. If you roll it into a wad or fold it, it'll last longer.

And since it's legal to have cologne in a car, it's a handy solution.

PS. My dad and I once had free vacation at a sanatorium - think a cruise ship that doesn't sail - near the Polish border. The rooms were not private. Each had four beds but we were sort of fortunate to have just one roommate. Except, he drank cologne when he woke up.
 
Barry_Green said:
Soap + water not all that convenient when you have to go places and pick up stuff and you want your hands clean NOW. Especially when you're 80+ and your immune system's trashed because you just got off chemotherapy, and you have to drive because there's nobody else who can, and you have to go pick up prescriptions, like my mother-in-law does. So she needs this stuff. And I'm sure others do too.

Look, if you're not interested, that's fine, don't post, but mocking an announcement that may be valuable to those of us who have elderly relatives (or others at high risk) is just not cool.
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I wasn't mocking an announcment. I was pointing out the scientific fact that washing hands with soap and water is more effective at keeping germs away than hand sanitizer is, and many people who are rushing for hand sanitizer seem to ignore this fact (not opinion; look it up if you're doubtful) and as a result wash their hands with soap and water less often becuase they think that hand sanitizer is sufficient, when it is in fact often not suficcient. But yeah, let's get the lynch mob out because I suggested there is a better alternative to hand sanitizer that is also more widely available.

I just find it odd how people make a big deal about an item not being available when there is a more effective item that is available. Yeah, I get it, hand sanitizer is more convenient, but it's not more effective (aside from the convenience can result in more use and therefore effectiveness argument). Similarly, I found it odd that people were freaking out from the unavailability of toilet paper, when again, using a bidet (or a toilet hose attachment that turns a regular toilet into a bidet) or a quick shower rinse are also more effective (and again, perhaps less convenient) ways of cleaning one's evacuatory members.

If there were no actually more effective alternatives available, then I would understand the freaking out more.

Here you can find the CDC's listing of when to use soap and water vs hand sanitizer. You'll find in most cases it recommends soap and water. https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/pdf/hand-sanitizer-factsheet.pdf

"Photos show why hand sanitizer doesn't work as well as soap and water to remove germs": https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-photos-why-you-should-wash-hands-with-soap-water-2020-3

Paul F said:
Thanks Eric. Now all I need to do is install a sink with running water in my car.
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One of the advantages of having an RV. But my RV is actually in the shop at the moment, and I'm on a three day road trip for work now in my SUV so I packed around 25 bottles of water, some of which are meant for handwashing with soap which I also packed (since I don't have hand sanitizer in part because I've assumed it's not available). If I'm going to eat, I'll wash my hands with soap before doing so, and I'm only eating the food in the ice chest in my car since I don't want to risk eating out. I wear gloves, eye protection, and an N95 mask when I exit the car, and remove the gloves upon reentering. I need to get disposable gloves as those are more effective but if properly used non-disposable gloves can be effective as well.

I just started Invisalign aligners a couple days ago, not the best time to do so (the best time would have been many years ago when parents would have paid and no pandemic), as it means putting my hands in my mouth to remove them and put them back every time I eat, which means my hands are touching the inside of my mouth even if I'm eating non-finger food with silverwear, so it's important to have hands that are cleaner than just using hand sanitizer. And back to water, additional bottles of water to use to brush after every meal as well, which is not something I did before Invisalign.


Run&Gun said:
Exactly. Now, I'm not a hand sanitizer person and I've always laughed and rolled my eyes at the OCD germaphobes, but hand washing is important now, and soap and running water are not always convenient.
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I guess like some others I have just always found hand sanitizer as gross. You rub this gooey stuff over your hands which is supposed to result in leaving a bunch of dead germs on your hands. Yeah, that's what I want on my hands, dead germs. Imagine if you're grossed out because you have literal crap on your hands, so you rub hand sanitizer and now you've got dead crap on yours hands. Still gross. And what, now it's okay to eat or put your dead crap filled hands in your mouth because the hand sanitizer killed the germs in the crap even though the crap is still on your hands? I don't think so. Hand sanitizer does not remove anything from your hands, it just kills the germs, so if you're wanting to avoid for example eating anything gross on your hands, hand sanitizer really does nothing to help you here. It kills germs, but doesn't really clean your hands. But people act like it does clean your hands, and that's what I find odd about it.

I get the convenience factor, and that the best method of protection would be to use a combination of hand sanitizer and soap plus water depending on availability, which I guess just means getting over being grossed out by it, or sticking with soap and water and using it as often as is prudent.
 
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Eric Coughlin said:
Hand sanitizer does not remove anything from your hands, it just kills the germs, so if you're wanting to avoid for example eating anything gross on your hands, hand sanitizer really does nothing to help you here. It kills germs, but doesn't really clean your hands. But people act like it does clean your hands, and that's what I find odd about it.
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But there are microbes on everything you eat, and in many cases they are beneficial. Cooked food is full of dead "germs".

"A typical apple carries more than 100m bacteria. Some of these microbes are important in maintaining a healthy gut environment." https://www.theguardian.com/society...-keep-the-doctor-away-apple-research-suggests

The problem with coronavirus is not that it's inherently gross, but that if the virions make it into your body intact, they will hijack your cells.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I wasn't mocking an announcment. I was pointing out the scientific fact that washing hands with soap and water is more effective at keeping germs away than hand sanitizer is, and many people who are rushing for hand sanitizer seem to ignore this fact (not opinion; look it up if you're doubtful) and as a result wash their hands with soap and water less often becuase they think that hand sanitizer is sufficient, when it is in fact often not suficcient. But yeah, let's get the lynch mob out because I suggested there is a better alternative to hand sanitizer that is also more widely available..
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This is the problem with propaganda on social media. It is usually half true. Surgical anti bacteriological soap is better than 70% alcohol wash BUT and this is a very big BUT most soaps that are available generally are not this sort of soap.

99% of the public won't have this anti bacteriological soap and much less use the correct temperature of water for the correct amount of time using the correct method and then don surgical gloves.

After the anti-bacteriological soap that surgeons use the next best solution is 70% alcohol hand wash. This is something 99% of the public can get hold of.

After that the least best solution is "normal" soap that 99% of the public buy which is better than nothing and not as effective as a 70% alcohol wash.

So whilst ( a specific) soap and (correct temperature) water is he best solution for Surgeons who have been taught the correct procedures 70% alcohol wash is the best solution for everyone else.

Also
Gloves are a very good idea. IF used properly. On top of hand washing.

Masks stop the wearer spreading germs the do NOT stop you breathing in germs. Most builders masks are designed to stop comparatively large rocks that are dust and debris in building. they won't filter out the very small microbes and germs.

BTW Respirators (as used by the military) use active carbon filters. These have a short life of about 8-12 hours once opened and fitted to a respirator. This goes down to 20 minutes when in contact with some biological/chemical agents. So unless you have a box of sealed and in date filters it is not worth wearing a military respirator.

About 2 months ago I got the full lecture from an NHS Nurse who works on infectious diseases and previously I did a lot if this myself for NBC work in the Cold War.
 
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Jaime Valles said:
I find that the "Add to Ignore List" button under a person's profile makes DVX User a heck of a lot more enjoyable to read.
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Much, much, more enjoyable.
If only life had a mute button...

PS (Pretty Sterile) Thanks for the link for those who can use it, Barry.
I got a gallon of 80% alcohol and add a small amount of glycerin to it. If it runs out, this pandemic has won...
 
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I did the weekly shop at WalMart Grocery last week, and they had bottles of hand sanitizer right on an end cap. It was surreal.
 
puredrifting said:
I did the weekly shop at WalMart Grocery last week, and they had bottles of hand sanitizer right on an end cap. It was surreal.
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Still haven’t seen more than literally a few packages of toilet paper or any cleaning supplies beyond dish detergent/laundry detergent, Clorox and glass cleaner. And no hand sanitizer in physical stores, yet, either.

One of my audio guys who is a major germophobe has tons of hand sanitizer(always had tons of it) and said he has plenty of Clorox Wipes. Said that Amazon still delivers his subscription of hand sanitizers. Last time I was on there, they wouldn’t even let you order them unless you were a hospital.
 
JAMedia said:
This is the problem with propaganda on social media. It is usually half true. Surgical anti bacteriological soap is better than 70% alcohol wash BUT and this is a very big BUT most soaps that are available generally are not this sort of soap.

99% of the public won't have this anti bacteriological soap and much less use the correct temperature of water for the correct amount of time using the correct method and then don surgical gloves.

After the anti-bacteriological soap that surgeons use the next best solution is 70% alcohol hand wash. This is something 99% of the public can get hold of.

After that the least best solution is "normal" soap that 99% of the public buy which is better than nothing and not as effective as a 70% alcohol wash.

So whilst ( a specific) soap and (correct temperature) water is he best solution for Surgeons who have been taught the correct procedures 70% alcohol wash is the best solution for everyone else.

Also
Gloves are a very good idea. IF used properly. On top of hand washing.

Masks stop the wearer spreading germs the do NOT stop you breathing in germs. Most builders masks are designed to stop comparatively large rocks that are dust and debris in building. they won't filter out the very small microbes and germs.

BTW Respirators (as used by the military) use active carbon filters. These have a short life of about 8-12 hours once opened and fitted to a respirator. This goes down to 20 minutes when in contact with some biological/chemical agents. So unless you have a box of sealed and in date filters it is not worth wearing a military respirator.

About 2 months ago I got the full lecture from an NHS Nurse who works on infectious diseases and previously I did a lot if this myself for NBC work in the Cold War.
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I literally quoted the CDC website and you're calling that "propaganda"? Regarding soap, the CDC article does not specify the type of soap, but one could assume they would not make an article like that aimed at the general populace but which only applied to a type of soap that 1% of the general populace has access to.

I Googled what you said, "anti bateriological soap" and did not find results for it. Anti bacterial soap I was able to find, and is what I currently have, and is also easily available in stores.

Here's a good article from Buzzfeed on the matter. "Let's Settle The Hand Sanitizer Vs. Handwashing Debate, Once And For All" https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...the-hand-sanitizer-versus-hand-washing-debate

Quoting from that article, "Also, any soap will work as long as it lathers and successfully washes off the dirt and grime, says Tetro."

Another article, "Does antibacterial soap kill coronavirus? Here's the best way to wash your hands": https://www.today.com/health/how-wash-your-hands-prevent-flu-coronavirus-more-t172753

Quoting from the article, "Does antibacterial soap kill coronavirus? ... Any soap and water is good."

More from that article, "McGee recommends using warm water and soap, though the temperature of the water doesn’t matter that much when it comes to eliminating germs. “For hot water itself to kill a germ it would have to be boiling,” McGee explained. “Warmer water helps the soap to disperse better. But, temperature really is not a factor in killing off the bacteria." The CDC article I linked to earlier also says, "Wet your hands with clean running water (warm or cold) and apply soap." This seems to contradict the degree of importance you implied regarding to temperature.

Those are just a couple among others I was able to find backing up that ordinary soap is more effective than hand sanitizer. Based off of what I'm finding on the Internet, what you stated regarding 99% of household soaps being less effective than hand sanitizer is in fact false. If you would like to dispute this please provide a reputable link to backup what you say and more than just, "About 2 months ago I got the full lecture from an NHS Nurse..."

The difference between soap and hand sanitizer is that soap's main goal is to wash the germs off, while hand sanitizer's goal is to kill them. So if you were to bring up that a soap is less effective at killing the germs it would not be relevant if using soap and water results in a higher percentage of germs being washed off and into places that they're no longer dangerous such as the sewer.

Multiple articles I've read are backing up what I'm saying. I'm not saying I know for a fact that I'm right; I'm just saying that my Internet research on the matter indicates that you are wrong and I'd be glad to see if you could in a factual manner prove that my research is incorrect so that we can together spread proper knowledge of the best methods of preventing the spread of germs through hands.

Here's another article from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

And again, I'm not saying we should not be using hand sanitizer. I'm just saying that when a choice is available, soap and water are the better option based off of everything I've read, particularly if it's before eating. In most cases a restroom with soap and water are within reach when out in public, and at home soap and water are available as well.


Regarding face masks, the CDC is also recommending now that everyone wears face masks, not just those who are sick. When I think about it, if someone were to cough liquid droplets toward my face, and I have no face protection, so if my mouth is open the particles go straight into my mouth, my eyes with no protection means it goes straight into my eyes, and particles land on my nose hairs...that all sounds much more likely to infect me than if those liquid particles land on my N95 mask and eye protection. Wear an N95 mask and spray you mouth with a spray bottle and you'll find your mouth stays dry. Yeah, I suppose if the droplets were to dry and become air born from your continued inhaling of the mask, then you could potentially eventually breath in the virus particles attached to the mask if the mask is insufficient at actually keeping the particles out. But in this specific case of someone coughing on you, if you immediately replace the mask then I'd imagine you would fully prevent contamination.

It seems that there is still a lot of vagueness and uncertainty going around of just how effective face protection is to keep people from getting people sick, but if just one example like above can prevent sickness, along with the lack of knowledge outside of that if it prevents sickness, it seems that wearing masks help prevent sickness more than they encourage sickness, and therefore can be recommended to help prevent sickness as well. Better safe than sorry.

Aside from that, considering human nature is often more worried about protecting themselves than strangers, emphasizing how masks don't protect a person from getting sick and only prevent the spread has a negative effect on encouraging people to use face masks and prevent spreading the virus.

______

As for the people downvoting my posts quoting the CDC website and trying to spread accurate information on proper sanitation techniques, perhaps best to downvote this "propaganda" post as well because why would we want people to be properly informed of the best techniques for preventing the spread of germs.
 
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