It sounds like you need to build an open source camera. Instead of waiting for the behemoth corporations to come around why not build one?
Hacking and why Intel and AMD now support it.
- Thread starter catonic
- Start date
It sounds like you need to build an open source camera. Instead of waiting for the behemoth corporations to come around why not build one?
TimTheFoolMan
Well-known member
Interesting, though the footage doesn't look so hot. Though it's proof it can be done.
No more stupid than expecting companies to just open up their firmware to be hacked and risk customers bricking their cameras and affecting the reputation of the company.
Viddovation
Veteran
Well, doesn't using hacked firmware void your warranty? I suspect Panasonic could easily make sure a revision log is recorded into the camera of firmware updates with... say... a file name, date, and MD5 checksum. By which, lets say you update to a hacked firmware, then, on a completely separate note, your LCD panel goes wonky green. Even if you successfully switched back to an official firmware, Panasonic could deny any warranty repair, period.
I wouldn't expect Panasonic to ever endorse using hacked firmware (or to provide official SDK support either), but I'll bet they won't mind if it reduces warranty repairs and increases sales due to customers replacing their bricked camera.
I wouldn't expect Panasonic to ever endorse using hacked firmware (or to provide official SDK support either), but I'll bet they won't mind if it reduces warranty repairs and increases sales due to customers replacing their bricked camera.
Why are you bothering with their products then?
For a person interested in getting camera companies to open up their products your approach is downright rude and abrasive. If there are Panasonic people from the consumer divisions reading these threads I doubt they'd be impressed with your tone or inclined to listen. Calling people stupid doesn't impress anyone. Perhaps all the praise has gotten to your head, which is a shame. You are definitely talented but your lack of humility is in pretty stark contrast to your talent. And that's not a stupid observation on my part.
Justyn
Veteran
IT's a very clear obervation Isaac. What I see with this is the Hack mentality. Kind of like the borg mentality. People love to be renegades, maveriks and getting over on the man. Regardless of the situation things are always better when they are ill gotten or somehow manipulated. I't like the being able to drink beer before your 21 and enjoying it more for the law-breaking qualities. That's what I think goes on and you see it time and time again in people who hack, or get shareware or downloaded contented bypassing the system.
I personally didn't consider the GH13 cause of the lockups and the hidcupps albeit as small. The one time you can't shoot in the field is the one time this is all for nothing.
I personally didn't consider the GH13 cause of the lockups and the hidcupps albeit as small. The one time you can't shoot in the field is the one time this is all for nothing.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Yeah, but let's take a step back here, increasing the clock frequency your CPU is running at is not hacking. It's going into the settings of the bios and changing a multiplier AND there is nothing you have to do in order to get that functionality. It's the motherboard and bios creators who have given you that capability, not you yourself. That's a pretty big difference in what is being changed.
On the iPhone, I am a developer, and I can tell you that you are sorely mistaken if you think you are free to program what you want on the iPhone. It is VERY restrictive and if you want to get deeper and change and UI specific functionality, you have to jailbreak your iPhone. But regardless, the iPhone is intended to be a platform for running applications, like a computer, which is not like a camera. Televisions, Bluray players and the like are beginning to compete with computers/game systems so they can provide access to things like Netflix and keep them viable. I would find it VERY hard to believe that you could make huge changes to the UI or the deep settings of the devices as this would be akin to the changes being made on a camera. In fact, I GUARANTEE you that protections are in place to prevent tampering with HD content that is designed to be protected.
I cannot change the interface on my Xbox 360, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my PS3, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my Wii, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my Roku audio device, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my iPhone or iPad, unless I jailbreak either of them.
I cannot change the interface on my 7D, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my DP6 or my DP1X LCD.
I cannot change the interface on my 720p projector.
Do I really need to go on? Most of these were purchased less than a year ago. This idea that all manufacturing companies are embracing SDK is a fallacy. I say this because comparing the ability to run applications on a device is MUCH DIFFERENT than going in and modifying the behavior of a device through low level functionality. Which, again, you don't get with the iPhone. If you cannot see how a television providing computer like functionality is different than a camera not designed as an entertainment device, but as a tool, then I don't know what to tell you. There is NO precedence in professional equipment to provide access to the low-level functionality of firmware. 99% of the people who use these cameras couldn't even begin to understand the complexity of the firmware and embedded systems. I really doubt that any company is going to see a benefit for providing access to a VERY complex system with non-generic DSP architectures for the handful of people that could actually understand them.
As I mentioned, RED is making an SDK for communicating with the camera, but NOT to control the internal workings of the camera outside the scope of what they have created.
Still, no one has been able to show this overwhelming precedence happening in the industry.
On the iPhone, I am a developer, and I can tell you that you are sorely mistaken if you think you are free to program what you want on the iPhone. It is VERY restrictive and if you want to get deeper and change and UI specific functionality, you have to jailbreak your iPhone. But regardless, the iPhone is intended to be a platform for running applications, like a computer, which is not like a camera. Televisions, Bluray players and the like are beginning to compete with computers/game systems so they can provide access to things like Netflix and keep them viable. I would find it VERY hard to believe that you could make huge changes to the UI or the deep settings of the devices as this would be akin to the changes being made on a camera. In fact, I GUARANTEE you that protections are in place to prevent tampering with HD content that is designed to be protected.
I cannot change the interface on my Xbox 360, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my PS3, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my Wii, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my Roku audio device, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my iPhone or iPad, unless I jailbreak either of them.
I cannot change the interface on my 7D, there is no SDK for it.
I cannot change the interface on my DP6 or my DP1X LCD.
I cannot change the interface on my 720p projector.
Do I really need to go on? Most of these were purchased less than a year ago. This idea that all manufacturing companies are embracing SDK is a fallacy. I say this because comparing the ability to run applications on a device is MUCH DIFFERENT than going in and modifying the behavior of a device through low level functionality. Which, again, you don't get with the iPhone. If you cannot see how a television providing computer like functionality is different than a camera not designed as an entertainment device, but as a tool, then I don't know what to tell you. There is NO precedence in professional equipment to provide access to the low-level functionality of firmware. 99% of the people who use these cameras couldn't even begin to understand the complexity of the firmware and embedded systems. I really doubt that any company is going to see a benefit for providing access to a VERY complex system with non-generic DSP architectures for the handful of people that could actually understand them.
As I mentioned, RED is making an SDK for communicating with the camera, but NOT to control the internal workings of the camera outside the scope of what they have created.
Still, no one has been able to show this overwhelming precedence happening in the industry.
TimTheFoolMan
Well-known member
Well when you put it THAT way... ;-)
Steve Kahn
Well-known member
I think the precedent was that Apple very recently tried to make you into a criminal if you hacked your phone and the courts shot them down.
There is nothing wrong with hacking. It has again and again furthered the computer industry and should help propel the camera industry as well.
Historically it furthered the cinematography industry as well. Old school DP routinely "hacked" hardware to suit their needs. Kubrick hacked lenses to make them worked to his spec in Barry Lyndon. This is nothing new, just perhaps new on a digital level.
And finally, yes, you always have the option of just not using a hack.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Where did I ever say that I thought hacking should be illegal or is wrong? I've never thought it should be and has absolutely nothing to do with the argument I have presented. I gave reasons for why Panasonic is not going to release an SDK for people to create their own firmware to run on their cameras. It's really that simple. Panasonic is a business and they have to operate to protect their interests. Firmware typically contains IP within it and it's in their best interest to try and protect that IP as much as possible. I absolutely agree with the courts decision with the Apple lobbyists, but, what you've really done is proven my point with your example. Apple wants to prevent ANY hacking on their devices in any way that they can. I'd say that sets a precedence to what at least one company wants, and I think we can say their products are pretty wide spread used.
Everyone that claims the industry is moving toward this fictitious open access model has yet to provide any real world examples of professional equipment being encouraged to be used as such by the manufacturer. I'm glad people like those here or the Magic Lantern guys are doing what they are doing. I like that they are pushing the technology to show what we really want in a camera and that we know some of these things are possible now. Like I said, I've never had a problem with hacking AT ALL. But that's not the point. Changing your frequency multiplier on your AMD or Intel chip is not hacking, it's over clocking. And understanding the difference is use models in devices that are open access platforms, like a computer or an iPhone, or an Android, etc, are totally different than a closed code system like a camera, or a microwave, or a electronic toothbrush for that matter.
Everyone that claims the industry is moving toward this fictitious open access model has yet to provide any real world examples of professional equipment being encouraged to be used as such by the manufacturer. I'm glad people like those here or the Magic Lantern guys are doing what they are doing. I like that they are pushing the technology to show what we really want in a camera and that we know some of these things are possible now. Like I said, I've never had a problem with hacking AT ALL. But that's not the point. Changing your frequency multiplier on your AMD or Intel chip is not hacking, it's over clocking. And understanding the difference is use models in devices that are open access platforms, like a computer or an iPhone, or an Android, etc, are totally different than a closed code system like a camera, or a microwave, or a electronic toothbrush for that matter.
TimTheFoolMan
Well-known member
Can you overclock a toothbrush?
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Possibly 
TimTheFoolMan
Well-known member
I've been wondering when Colgate would officially support this. - Tim