H.264 or ProRes422

J

Jokerswild

Well-known member
Hi Folks;
Recently did a test with some HD Footage. I had an edit session that I exported to Quicktime, in FCP, latest version. Frst in H.264, and then in ProRes422, and then in ProRes4229 HQ)

The H.264 looked a little soft and washed out with weak colors
The ProRes422 (HQ) looked excellent
THe ProRes422 looked equally as good

Can anyone make sense of this to me and possibly explain my results. I would appreciate understanding the differences. Oh, the file sizes were different as well, as expected.

Thanks.
Steve
www.sjbaraophoto.com
 
H.264 is optimized for web- it sacrifices quality for file size. ProRes is meant for working with tape outputs or as an archiving format. It sacrifices compact size for image quality. So you use H.264 for web, and Prores for working with footage instead of uncompressed for best trade-off between image quality and size of file. HQ adds a little more bitrate for even more image quality.

More info on ProRes here:

http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/white_papers/L342568A_ProRes_WP.pdf

H.264 here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264

-Noah
 
Understanding H.264 and ProRes422

Understanding H.264 and ProRes422

Cools said:
H.264 is an output format, ProRes is an editing and archival format.
Click to expand...


Noah..Thanks for the reading links. I read them both. Cools. Thanks for the info. Here was my workflow. I guess a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I am still unclear on the workflow. This is what I did.

Shot HD on Canon XH-A1 (30fps)
Import tape as DV-NTSC
Edit tape
Export as Quicktime...CHOOSING ProRES422 (HQ)
Resulting file was 11 gigs, looked great
Tried exporting ....CHOOSING H.264, looked flat and washed out, didn't use
Finally brought into iDVD and burned a nice looking DVD

Was I supposed to somehow choose ProRes422 (HQ) when importing my original tape? instead of just selecting it for exporting/output to a file?

Also, I suppose iDVD shrinks the file also because the 11gig ProRess (HQ) fit on the DVD.

Thanks and hope I am not being a pest here.
Steve

www.sjbaraophoto.com
 
Just so you're aware... iDVD is an image killer. It has one of the most unpleasant codecs for DVD compression.

Since you're end-product is DVD, stay away from h.264. As others have already noted, that's a codec for web-published video. Go with a higher codec. The best option is to use Compressor to convert your video for DVD, then use DVDSP to author the disc.

And if you're importing your HDV footage as DV-NTSC, you're dropping from HD to SD.
 
Jokerswild, you are doing too many conversions that are wasting your time and don't add anything to the end result.

If your end result is only DVD and you're not adding a lot of effects, color corrections, etc. then importing your footage as DV is a good option. Understand that you are losing resolution by going from HD, but since you'll be going to DVD, you'll have to convert to lower resolution SD in the end anyway. You also don't need to use ProRes or H.264 when you export:

1) Import as DV,
2) Edit in DV,
3) Export clip using current sequence settings (which should be DV), create self contained clip for less problems,
4) Use one of the DVD presets (pick the one that corresponds to the length of your video) in Compressor to create an MPEG-2 video file (.m2v) and Dolby Digital audio file (.ac3),
5) Import the files into DVD Studio Pro to burn your DVD (you'll need to learn the basics of this application, but it's not too hard and you'll have more options down the line).

On the other hand, if you need to stay in HD (for example to create a DVD version but also a high quality H.264 video for web, etc.) you have two more options: Edit in native HDV or convert to ProRes and edit using that.

Editing in HDV can be very resource intensive, especially when you start adding graphics, overlays, lower thirds, etc. on top of your footage. If you have a recent computer you'll probably be able to edit directly in HDV without slowdowns, but if there are a lot of graphics and effects, you can switch to ProRes to lessen the load on your CPU (at the cost of larger files). Once you've done your edit, you can export your clip to HDV or ProRes (depending on which one you used in your edit) for conversion to MPEG-2 (and H.264 for web, etc.) using Compressor.

Finally, even if you don't use ProRes for editing, it can be useful as an export codec going from HDV or even DV. The reason for this is that ProRes is a much higher codec and if you've added a lot of effects, color corrections, overlays, graphics, etc. you can gain a slight benefit in quality of your renders by exporting to ProRes rather than to the original DV or HDV. The difference can be very, very small and is of benefit only if you have a complicated edit with lots of corrections and you want to maintain the highest quality for as long as possible. Another option would be to go Uncompressed, but ProRes gives you almost the same quality but at smaller sizes.
 
I am not kidding. You guys are great. All of your responses are very to the point and clear. I have been doing this all wrong. I can see that now. Very much appreciate the input. Can't wait to go and try it..Hmmm, and all this time I thought iDVD was doing a decent job. Actually I found it a llittle buggy anyway. Thanks again.
Steve
www.sjbaraophoto.com
 
.....And Noah..I just ordered (by phone, hate paypal) your HD Survival Guide video. Can't wait to get it. Thanks again.
Steve
 
Although have never used HDV, I have had the best quality results from DV by going straight from FCP to DVDSP. From FCP I simply export a quick reference file (i.e., not a stand-alone movie) of the timeline. Then I drag and drop that reference file straight into my DVDSP project.

You have to set the DVDSP MPEG-2 import settings before the drag and drop, as DVDSP uses whatever you have set most recently in Preferences. But when I set those well (as high a rate as practical, 2-pass VBR), I have usually gotten very good results. Plus, it's all automatic, and while it imports you can work on your DVDSP project as if the movie is already there. If I remember correctly, you can even play whatever portion has already imported while testing the DVD in Simulator.

Again, mileage may vary with HDV, as I have never used it. This is just the DVDSP workflow I chose after trying several methods with DV projects.
 
Apple ProRes 422 is great. Like everyone else said, H.264 is only for internet use only. If you shot on a HVX200, then use the codec that the camera uses. DVCPRO HD 720p60p. It's a great codec. It's the same as ProRes 422. Pretty much, everyone here answered your question.

Cheers,

Murray
 
I'd like to add a question to this. I'm in sort of the same boat, except that I captured to ProRess HQ just fine, and editing is going well, but I have a question about output. I'm going to be outputting to DVD (no problems there) but I'm also wanting to export an HD file (probably at 720p) for watching on something like an Xbox 360 or similar media player that can be connected to an HDTV. The fesitval my film is screening at will have an Xbox 360 on hand for playback of HD films.

How should I export for that?
 
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