FS7: Gotchas. quirks, problems & solutions

The Gratical does cost 40% of the whole camera!
Yes, it sounds like the perfect viewfinder, but Sony must
solve the issues.

I was out today to make the first tests in cineEI and everything was fine.
The image came out really nice. Faces in backlight - wow!
But without a LUT it was impossible to nail exposure in R+G situations because
your range is just to big in SLog3. You need the LUT to nail exposure especially if you're
underexposing to have a low noise level in ISO800.
The other problem without the LUT is that it is really hard to focus with the very soft
SLog3 image on the viewfinder. We definitely need LUT + WFM!

Give me waveform with LUT + WB and NR in cineEI and the camera is all you can want.

Another thing I don't like on R+G is the handgrip arm. You have to readjust it every time
you take the camera from shoulder to waist or chest level. But readjusting takes to much
time.

The last concern is the mount of the viewfinder. In a way it is really good for the different
position you can get. But if you want to put the viewfinder out of your way for transport
or anything it takes also to much time to readjust it.

Okay, this is sort of very special for the kind of shooting I do, but I prefer a viewfinder that
can be tilted to side. I think I will buy some sort of new mount for the viewfinder in some
months when the manufacturers bring out additional stuff for this little beast.

What makes me really happy is the final image!
Record in cineEI (SGamut3.cine/SLog3) and put the LC709A LUT on top in post and you're
good to go for any look you want. The time needed for cc and grading will be drastivally reduced.

I like the filmconvert Kodak Vision3 output LUTs on top very much. Yes I will put some custom curves
on top as well, but I like the image as it is very much without additional grading as I never did before
with my own camera.
 
If someone is handing feedback to Sony I would focus on the actual firmware glitches, mistakes and bugs rather than feature requests that are also requested by users on other cameras everyday. These can come later, let's fix the bugs first, that's way more of a priority for the cameras' usability, value and reputaion.
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
The Gratical does cost 40% of the whole camera!
Yes, it sounds like the perfect viewfinder, but Sony must
solve the issues.

I was out today to make the first tests in cineEI and everything was fine.
The image came out really nice. Faces in backlight - wow!
But without a LUT it was impossible to nail exposure in R+G situations because
your range is just to big in SLog3. You need the LUT to nail exposure especially if you're
underexposing to have a low noise level in ISO800.
The other problem without the LUT is that it is really hard to focus with the very soft
SLog3 image on the viewfinder. We definitely need LUT + WFM!

Give me waveform with LUT + WB and NR in cineEI and the camera is all you can want.

Another thing I don't like on R+G is the handgrip arm. You have to readjust it every time
you take the camera from shoulder to waist or chest level. But readjusting takes to much
time.

The last concern is the mount of the viewfinder. In a way it is really good for the different
position you can get. But if you want to put the viewfinder out of your way for transport
or anything it takes also to much time to readjust it.

Okay, this is sort of very special for the kind of shooting I do, but I prefer a viewfinder that
can be tilted to side. I think I will buy some sort of new mount for the viewfinder in some
months when the manufacturers bring out additional stuff for this little beast.

What makes me really happy is the final image!
Record in cineEI (SGamut3.cine/SLog3) and put the LC709A LUT on top in post and you're
good to go for any look you want. The time needed for cc and grading will be drastivally reduced.

I like the filmconvert Kodak Vision3 output LUTs on top very much. Yes I will put some custom curves
on top as well, but I like the image as it is very much without additional grading as I never did before
with my own camera.
Click to expand...

This is kind of a silly question, but how are you applying the LC709A LUT? Is there a file or somewhere I can grab this? For faster turnaround projects, I apply LUTs with Lumetri in Premiere. Lumetri asks for a LUT file.
 
jshbckr said:
This is kind of a silly question, but how are you applying the LC709A LUT? Is there a file or somewhere I can grab this? For faster turnaround projects, I apply LUTs with Lumetri in Premiere. Lumetri asks for a LUT file.
Click to expand...

http://community.sony.com/sony/atta...2707/1/SonyLookProfiles_SLog3_SGamut3Cine.zip

Sony keeps calling them Look profiles, but they are 3D LUTs in .cube format

They are also pre-installed with Resolve Lite. Note that I'm not sure if Premiere clips off the 0-64 and 960-1023 range of the video files from the FS7. If it does, you lose some latitude there, and it doesn't look as nice as it can.
 
In Cine EI with the vf-LUT on can you get Zebras, and do you have 2 zebras available like on the old F3?
what's the range of values available on the zebras?

It would be very nice to have the old IRE % box available like on the F3 - that makes nailing proper exposure with a grey card easy. I hope some of these changes are possible. I was discouraging reading that processing power may be responsible for limiting some of these features because they are basic.

I agree that tilting viewfinder to the side is often valuable - especially for shooting in a car. jshbckr had an easy homemade fix back on the first page of this thread - though I would like see better pictures as I still couldn't grock it from the earlier pics.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?330455-actually-FS7-Gotchas-quirks-problems-amp-solutions
 
There seems to be a little cross info here..

Can one get WFM on a lut as long as you are putting the same signal out to SDI?

S
 
What I've been doing is shooting CineEi mode. Setting all three switches on H/M/L to ISO2000. I set exposure by the waveform. If there's time I use a lastolite gray reference to confirm exposure, otherwise I use my judgement of what is in the scene and where it falls on the waveform. I use the magnify button to punch in to dark areas to check for noise. If I see noise I give the camera more light. After three weeks of back to back shoots in a range of locations I've had no nightmares, but do agree with Erik, LUT's plus Waveform, plus WB would be great.

One thing I'm testing is setting up in Custom mode shooting Slog 3 with matrix off. That way you'll have WB and NR. Just need to see what the trade-offs are...
 
Liam Hall said:
Yes, but you have to have all LUT options switched on, which includes internal recording. So a complete fail by Sony there.
Click to expand...
Would this indicate that the camera does actually have the ability to show a LUT + waveform, from a power/processing perspective?

Also, your tradeoff for using Custom to have more white balance control is that you can't use LUTs! Major bummer.

From poking around in Custom mode a little bit, it doesn't even look like you can set it up to dial-in WB by degrees with the selection wheel (like the FS700). You have to set the WB value in the menu and then select it with the A/B/Preset switch. Seems like this camera favors menu-digging...
 
Seriously, how do you see exposure on the FS7? The percentage marker on the F3 made my shooting so easy. Just pick a white spot in the frame and set it 68% and do a skin check and you are done. How would I go about to do the same on the FS7?
 
Or setting the zebra to 61% (90% white in S-Log3) with aperture set to 1.
You can set a second zebra to another value of your choice.

This is really easy.
 
jshbckr said:
Would this indicate that the camera does actually have the ability to show a LUT + waveform, from a power/processing perspective?
Click to expand...

Yes.

jshbckr said:
Also, your tradeoff for using Custom to have more white balance control is that you can't use LUTs! Major bummer.
Click to expand...

No, but at the moment I can't use them EI mode either because I want the waveform.

jshbckr said:
From poking around in Custom mode a little bit, it doesn't even look like you can set it up to dial-in WB by degrees with the selection wheel (like the FS700). You have to set the WB value in the menu and then select it with the A/B/Preset switch. Seems like this camera favors menu-digging...
Click to expand...

You can use the custom WB button on the front. Pretty simple.
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
Or setting the zebra to 61% (90% white in S-Log3) with aperture set to 1.
You can set a second zebra to another value of your choice.

This is really easy.
Click to expand...

Zebras are absolutely useless for setting exposure in Slog3 where you need to know the levels for black, white and most importantly middle gray.
 
Im still getting my head around this whole thing - I can decide if super accuracy is needed (which would be to keep important stuff out of the 'knee') or a slap happy approach will work (to be sorted out in the suite)

Anyway if one is viewing a LUT and zebras are at 90 the pre delog footage will put that stuff at 60 - so, well.. you have a ton of headroom!

This probably isnt making sense. Anyway I ran a little test on someone else footage and you can see his exposure is a little slap happy and, well it grades fine..

(it does make sense if you are used to shooting raw, which is pretty 'slapl happy' as you have a couple of stops swing either way!)

 
Liam Hall said:
Zebras are absolutely useless for setting exposure in Slog3 where you need to know the levels for black, white and most importantly middle gray.
Click to expand...

I don't like using zebra for exposure either.

But as 90% white is at IRE61 in SLog3 you can just put it there if you want.
That can't be a solution for nailing the exposure in heavily backlit R+G situations
but at least you can expose according to the "rule".

Nevertheless I want WFM bigger and together with LUT on viewfinder!
But what should the WFM show then? Original SLog range or the range
of the LUT? I would like to have the SLog range without the LUT.

How do you want it?
 
I think the WFM should always default to what is being recorded so it's dependant on recording settings. Once those are fixed ;)
 
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