GOPRO hero 4 - will 60Mbps be high enough for 4K shooting???

Dusty, I wasn't complaining about the GP4 at all. I was just asking whether the softness of the image was intentional.

If I didn't think it was an amazing camera, I wouldn't be ordering one myself.
 
I'll step in to say that I don't believe he was aiming his "get the F out" comment at you - although he had just quoted you. Rather, it's part of the mantra he's expressed when addressing those who complain about what the camera "isn't" in general.
 
Hi Dustylens, thanks for the video. Did you notice any difference in quality between 4K and 2.7K when both exported to 1080p? Trying to decide if it's worth upgrading my GP Black 3+. Thanks.
 
Terry_Lasater said:
I'll step in to say that I don't believe he was aiming his "get the F out" comment at you - although he had just quoted you. Rather, it's part of the mantra he's expressed when addressing those who complain about what the camera "isn't" in general.
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Totally not aimed at Nick. It was a general blanket statement. I'm just one that is tired of people complaining about camera specs. Amazing low cost cameras everywhere and somehow people complain that they aren't Alexa's. Gh4, A7s, C100, GoPro, you name it. All of these cameras are capable of breath taking images and at prices just 5 years ago seemed out of reach. I own all the before mentioned cameras (and more) and they add up to less than a camera with these capabilities would have costs just 5 or 6 years ago (if not less time). It's like these camera makers owe complainers the end all camera for a weeks paycheck working as a paperboy. Trust me, you don't want that camera to exist EVER. Why? Because everyone would have it and it would be really hard to find work competing against 17 year old kids with a degree of talent. There is a reason and world order that the Alexa is the Alexa and the Gopro is the Gopro. Lets keep it that way.
 
I haven't tried the 2.7k yet. I imagine it's better than the GP3's though due to the better image and control. Think of how good the GP3 is and add 2x to that and you get the Gp4.
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
Just wondering whether the 60 Mbps bit rate for 4K would be a high enough bit rate given that everything is in focus?
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That's actually a good question; having everything be in focus definitely stresses the codec more than it would be stressed on, say, an S35 camera.

60mbps for 4K is roughly equivalent to 15mbps for HD. We've seen decent results from AVCHD at 17mbps ("HA" mode) on small-chip cameras, although obviously better results at 24mpbs. It's possible that the GoPro has a more refined codec chip than the early AVCHD cameras had. Or not, it is a very tiny camera.

So ultimately, debating the numbers isn't really going to tell us the whole story, looking at the actual footage will. I would think, generally, that it will be fine for lower-motion, lower-detail shots, but if there are any issues, they'd show up in, say, a running-through-a-forest-in-daylight type of shot. That's pretty much the torture test for any long-GoP codec. That, or scenarios where there are lots of sudden brightness changes, like maybe filming when fireworks are going off or at a club or perhaps during a thunderstorm.

It's also possible that a lot of reflective, splashing water can cause a codec serious troubles. I would THINK, however, that seeing as so much footage is shot of surfing, that they would have certainly taken that into account.

I would guess that they've tailored the codec to do a pretty good to really good job in most scenarios. The bitrate does seem low to handle challenging scenes, but then again they're a few generations in on this and perhaps they've got it fine-tuned. Only way we'll know for sure is when our members get their hands on it and start putting it through some codec-stressing scenarios to see how it really performs.
 
Barry_Green said:
That's actually a good question; having everything be in focus definitely stresses the codec more than it would be stressed on, say, an S35 camera.

60mbps for 4K is roughly equivalent to 15mbps for HD. We've seen decent results from AVCHD at 17mbps ("HA" mode) on small-chip cameras, although obviously better results at 24mpbs. It's possible that the GoPro has a more refined codec chip than the early AVCHD cameras had. Or not, it is a very tiny camera.

So ultimately, debating the numbers isn't really going to tell us the whole story, looking at the actual footage will. I would think, generally, that it will be fine for lower-motion, lower-detail shots, but if there are any issues, they'd show up in, say, a running-through-a-forest-in-daylight type of shot. That's pretty much the torture test for any long-GoP codec. That, or scenarios where there are lots of sudden brightness changes, like maybe filming when fireworks are going off or at a club or perhaps during a thunderstorm.

It's also possible that a lot of reflective, splashing water can cause a codec serious troubles. I would THINK, however, that seeing as so much footage is shot of surfing, that they would have certainly taken that into account.

I would guess that they've tailored the codec to do a pretty good to really good job in most scenarios. The bitrate does seem low to handle challenging scenes, but then again they're a few generations in on this and perhaps they've got it fine-tuned. Only way we'll know for sure is when our members get their hands on it and start putting it through some codec-stressing scenarios to see how it really performs.
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I'll say it again and again and again. "IT'S A CAMERA THE SIZE OF A BOX OF MATCHES". Seems that 60mbps worked wonders here. If they can get this, why can't you?......
 
Barry_Green said:
60mbps for 4K is roughly equivalent to 15mbps for HD. We've seen decent results from AVCHD at 17mbps ("HA" mode) on small-chip cameras, although obviously better results at 24mpbs. It's possible that the GoPro has a more refined codec chip than the early AVCHD cameras had. Or not, it is a very tiny camera.
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That's not my understanding of long-GOP H.264. From everything I've read, at the same image-quality level, data rates don't scale proportionally with resolution (i.e., four times the pixels doesn't require four times the data rate).
 
Did you have any trouble fitting your Hero 4 onto your Phantom 2?

I called B&H with questions about the various bundles they offer and was told the Hero 4 wasn't the same size specs as the 3 and that it wouldn't fit the gimbal(?) as is and that they were waiting for some modification.


dustylense said:
I have the Phantom 2 with h3-3d gimbal.
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Assuming dusty had no issue, it would appear like the guy I spoke with didn't know what he was talking about.
 
It fits, it works. But I know DJI will make a gimbal for it. One of the buttons on the side of the GP4 hits the gimbal and can get stuck. But so far mine is working just fine.
 
in case anyone is trying to find extra go pro hero 4 batteries bestbuy has them in stock "online" and shipping.

david
 
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Tzedekh said:
That's not my understanding of long-GOP H.264. From everything I've read, at the same image-quality level, data rates don't scale proportionally with resolution (i.e., four times the pixels doesn't require four times the data rate).
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I said "roughly", not absolutely. It obviously depends on if there's any intra-frame duplication that can be taken into account. The point was, 15mbps has proven to be adequate to render some pretty good-looking HD, so 60mbps may very well be sufficient for good-looking 4K, depending on the scene and what stress is placed on the codec.

When you're talking about h.264, you can't make any absolute declarations. 60p does not require twice the data rate of 30p, for example. It might, or it might not, but usually doesn't require anywhere near twice the data rate to make comparable-quality pictures.
 
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