Good quality on-camera mic for a7s ii

Y

ymotion

Member
Hi,

Looking to find a good mic to mount on my a7s ii. The option I found so far is the XLR-K2M by Sony. It's nice because it uses the hot shoe of the camera (then you'll need to make sure you have a good power solution). I tried it in a rental shop. It's quite good - but there are some reviews saying there's an issue once both XLR channels are used - audio leaks from one channel to the other. I only tried it with 1 microphone so I can't tell.

Another thing for me to take into consideration is the sound coming from operating the camera. I use only manual focus - and also focus assistance (zoom). I use the Custom button 1 for that. Obviously, when I use the internal mic of the camera, the sounds of pressing the C1 are very noticeable. So I'm looking to find something that does not record them. With the K2M mic, the sound of the button is much less noticeable - but albeit quiet is still there...Is there a way to completely make it go? (now I'm thinking... maybe use the C3 or C4, which are located at the back of the camera, I can prevent the sound from being recorded. Not sure...)

I wonder if you have any other options here or some interesting ideas. Would love to get your input.

Thanks
 
Not sure what kind of work you're trying to do but a shotgun mic mounted on the camera is usually too far away for interview subjects or actors.

I put a lav on the subject/actor and an ambient XY stereo mic on the camera, then mix according to distance, i.e. fade down the lav as the actor moves further from the camera.
 
ymotion said:
Hi,
Another thing for me to take into consideration is the sound coming from operating the camera. I use only manual focus - and also focus assistance (zoom). I use the Custom button 1 for that. Obviously, when I use the internal mic of the camera, the sounds of pressing the C1 are very noticeable. So I'm looking to find something that does not record them. With the K2M mic, the sound of the button is much less noticeable - but albeit quiet is still there...Is there a way to completely make it go? (now I'm thinking... maybe use the C3 or C4, which are located at the back of the camera, I can prevent the sound from being recorded. Not sure...)
Thanks
Click to expand...

To minimize camera noise, use a good shock mount.
 
Viscount Omega said:
Not sure what kind of work you're trying to do but a shotgun mic mounted on the camera is usually too far away for interview subjects or actors.

I put a lav on the subject/actor and an ambient XY stereo mic on the camera, then mix according to distance, i.e. fade down the lav as the actor moves further from the camera.
Click to expand...

Hi Viscount,
Thanks for writing. I'm planning to film in a metal and glass workshops. This has no interviews, just the ambient sound. This is a one-man-band project, so I'll be doing the filming and the sound myself. At first I thought to have a mic+stand and an external recording device - which will ensure high quality audio. But this will make things complicated, especially since I'd like to move around easily...and not sure that the difference in audio quality would worth the extra effort and also money.

You wrote XY stereo...didn't think about that . I googled it and saw few options by Tascam and Rode. How is the quality? Is it equal to a XLR mic with a phantom? My current solution is to rent Sony XLR K2M - how do XY mic perform relatively to the Sony?

Thanks
 
Hey--this is a big question and the discussion probably belongs in a sound forum. I haven't used any of the gear you listed but it sounds like you don't want to fool with dual system XLR condenser mics into a separate pre-amp/recorder and just want to record in-camera.

Rather than me advocate or put something else down, I'll just say, for the job you describe, I would want it to be in stereo with XY condenser mics. That's just personal preference. Some are adjustable from wide spacious sound to more center focused, which is a great option to have.

I haven't tried them but there are stereo shotguns mics too. Huge consideration is convenience/weight/mobility vs. quality/expense. There are lots of options and pros and cons to think about. You could buy 2-3 mics and return what you don't like.

I coulda been a politician:evil:

I'll post a pic and description of my camera/sound rig later.

DSC01533.jpg

Parts:

Audio-Technica AT2022 X/Y Stereo Microphone
Desmond Deluxe Stereo Camera Bracket
Auray DUSM-1 Universal Shock Mount
Manfrotto 088LBP Female 1/4"-20 to Male 3/8" Thread Adapter, with 1.18" Diameter Flange
Manfrotto Lumimuse 3 On-Camera LED Light
Rode Dead Kitten Artificial Fur Wind Shield (not shown)


This setup is fairly light. I say fairly because the camera bracket is 1/4" solid steel and the mic is solid too.

There's a quick release plate mounted under the bracket to put it on a tripod.

I like that the mic is not in my face and there's plenty of room for my hand. I could also slide the mic to the very end and put the LED light on the other side of the bracket.

This mic can do wide 120 degree or 90 degree XY settings. There's a little background hiss if recording in a very quiet room that I EQ out but this is inherent in small diaphragm microphones. Otherwise, I turn the low-cut switch on, adjust the mics, hit record and have a near perfect ambient stereo track already sync'd with picture. One thing--there's no battery life indicator light but it takes 1 AA battery and lasts like 5,000 hours.

You could do better with a matched pair of Neumann's in an XY configuration recording into something like a Tascam DR100mkII but it will cost you a lot and it's bulky (and you have to sync it up manually). I also tried the Audio-Technica BP4025 X/Y but I didn't like the stereo image field it produced.
 
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Sony XRL-K1M reliable sound imput 2 source, with phantom, line, mic inputs, low cut, manual or auto. I solved audio.
 
ymotion said:
Just read about iRig Pre, as an alternative option to phantom XLR mics.
http://filmkit.net/posts/show/4589/tutorial-use-the-irig-pre-as-a-dslr-preamp

Did someone try this option?

Currently - I can go with XY mic (Tascam TM-2X got good reviews b&h), or get XLR mic like AT875R, find a good mount and use the iRig Pre. Both are very affordable. (or go and rent Sony XLR K2M - but I don't want to buy it)

What do you say?
Click to expand...

A7Sii rig with the iRig. Allows me to use my high-end shotgun mic. Awesome audio without the unwieldy bulk and weight of XRL-K1M, preamp or separate recorder.

A7S-iRig.jpg
 
VMT said:
A7Sii rig with the iRig. Allows me to use my high-end shotgun mic. Awesome audio without the unwieldy bulk and weight of XRL-K1M, preamp or separate recorder.

View attachment 114429
Click to expand...

Hi VMT,
Thanks for sharing.
Looks really good!
1) Which mic are you using and does it capture operating sounds from the Camera?
I tested the Sony XLR K2M: it still captures some sounds from operating the camera - LIKE pressing C1. I'm using the C1 a lot for focus magnification...

2) How did you mount the iRig pre and the mic?
 
That iRig pre seems like a great product for the money. Insane that the company doesn't make it with a regular output plug for DSLR cameras. It seems people are re-wiring it or connecting an adapter for that purpose. That said, the most expensive shotgun mic in the world connected to it is still going to be narrow-focused and mono.
 
The mics I use and how I mount them don't pick up camera handling noise at all.

Here's my setup:

Sennheiser MKE 600 or MKH 8060 -- pictured with the Sony is probably the 8060
Rycote shock mount
The iRig pre is clamped down tight with a cheese bar with 3/4" and 1/4" holes that's attached to the hot shoe mount. A piece of electrical tape on the iRig prevents it from slipping against the camera and the cheese bar. The iRig is not 100% secured to the camera -- but it's secured enough -- so I am putting a 1/4" hole in it to attach it to the cheese bar.
3' angled coiled XLR cable
3.5mm coiled audio cable
The mic and shock mount go on top of the cheese bar via a cold shoe mount with a 1/4" hole.

Disadvantages of the iRig pre: It's DIY, you have to take it apart and rewire it, mono only to both channels, lacks useful features of a dedicated DSLR preamp.
Advantages: smallest & lightest XLR-capable preamp with phantom power, inexpensive for good audio.

My A7SII setup you see above is purely for run and gun which works well for me. It's mobile and super light I can shoot handheld all day. I can pick up good dialogue 10 ft away with a shotgun. Great for man-on-the street interviews and natural dialogue.

I don't use this setup for talking head interviews and narration. A boomed mic and a multi-channel dedicated preamp or recorder will get the best results. A JuicedLink preamp or a Tascam field recorder works pretty well for studio, but they are way too big for a mirrorless run and gun A7SII kit always on the move to get the best possible shot and audio.
 
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VMT said:
The mics I use and how I mount them don't pick up camera handling noise at all.

Here's my setup:

Sennheiser MKE 600 or MKH 8060 -- pictured with the Sony is probably the 8090
Rycote shock mount
The iRig pre is clamped down tight with a cheese bar with 3/4" and 1/4" holes that's attached to the hot shoe mount. A piece of electrical tape on the iRig prevents it from slipping against the camera and the cheese bar. The iRig is not 100% secured to the camera -- but it's secured enough -- so I am putting a 1/4" in it to attach it to the cheese bar.
3' angled coiled XLR cable
3.5mm coiled audio cable
The mic and shock mount go on top of the cheese bar via a cold shoe mount with a 1/4" hole.

Disadvantages of the iRig pre: It's DIY, you have to take it apart and rewire it, mono only to both channels, lack useful features of a dedicated DSLR preamp.
Advantages: smallest & lightest XLR-capable preamp with phantom power, inexpensive for good audio.

My A7SII setup you see above is purely for run and gun which works well for me. It's mobile and super light I can shoot handheld all day. I can pick up good dialogue 10 ft away with a shotgun. Great for man-on-the street interviews and natural dialogue.

I don't use this setup for talking head interviews and narration. A boomed mic and a multi-channel dedicated preamp or recorder will get the best results. A JuicedLink preamp or a Tascam field recorder works pretty well for studio, but they are way too big for a mirrorless run and gun A7SII kit always on the move to get the best possible shot and audio.
Click to expand...

Thanks VMT, very nice design: compact and intelligent. Was looking for something like that.
As I read more about the topic, I find more options...The ME64 is nice because it can run by a battery (so you don't need the iRig). It's a bit bright, and I think the mics you mentioned are better.
 
Viscount Omega said:
Hey--this is a big question and the discussion probably belongs in a sound forum. I haven't used any of the gear you listed but it sounds like you don't want to fool with dual system XLR condenser mics into a separate pre-amp/recorder and just want to record in-camera.

Rather than me advocate or put something else down, I'll just say, for the job you describe, I would want it to be in stereo with XY condenser mics. That's just personal preference. Some are adjustable from wide spacious sound to more center focused, which is a great option to have.

I haven't tried them but there are stereo shotguns mics too. Huge consideration is convenience/weight/mobility vs. quality/expense. There are lots of options and pros and cons to think about. You could buy 2-3 mics and return what you don't like.

I coulda been a politician:evil:

I'll post a pic and description of my camera/sound rig later.



Parts:

Audio-Technica AT2022 X/Y Stereo Microphone
Desmond Deluxe Stereo Camera Bracket
Auray DUSM-1 Universal Shock Mount
Manfrotto 088LBP Female 1/4"-20 to Male 3/8" Thread Adapter, with 1.18" Diameter Flange
Manfrotto Lumimuse 3 On-Camera LED Light
Rode Dead Kitten Artificial Fur Wind Shield (not shown)


This setup is fairly light. I say fairly because the camera bracket is 1/4" solid steel and the mic is solid too.

There's a quick release plate mounted under the bracket to put it on a tripod.

I like that the mic is not in my face and there's plenty of room for my hand. I could also slide the mic to the very end and put the LED light on the other side of the bracket.

This mic can do wide 120 degree or 90 degree XY settings. There's a little background hiss if recording in a very quiet room that I EQ out but this is inherent in small diaphragm microphones. Otherwise, I turn the low-cut switch on, adjust the mics, hit record and have a near perfect ambient stereo track already sync'd with picture. One thing--there's no battery life indicator light but it takes 1 AA battery and lasts like 5,000 hours.

You could do better with a matched pair of Neumann's in an XY configuration recording into something like a Tascam DR100mkII but it will cost you a lot and it's bulky (and you have to sync it up manually). I also tried the Audio-Technica BP4025 X/Y but I didn't like the stereo image field it produced.
Click to expand...

Hi Viscount,
Thanks a lot for sharing. I guess I'll need to decide - shot gun or X/Y. I know that the X/Y is wide and not sure it fits my purposes - I want the audio to be more or less what the camera capture. But I don't know much moire about the differences...
 
If you go with an XY, you could set the mics to their widest setting and record a couple minutes to get the ambient sound of the metal and glass workshops, then switch them toward the center for your mediums and close-ups.

If you go with a shotgun, you could first record a couple minutes of ambient sound using the a7sII's internal mics then record the rest with the shotgun.

Pan the ambient stuff hard left and right, the shotgun stuff in the center.

Or you could buy them both. Good luck!
 
Viscount Omega said:
If you go with an XY, you could set the mics to their widest setting and record a couple minutes to get the ambient sound of the metal and glass workshops, then switch them toward the center for your mediums and close-ups.

If you go with a shotgun, you could first record a couple minutes of ambient sound using the a7sII's internal mics then record the rest with the shotgun.

Pan the ambient stuff hard left and right, the shotgun stuff in the center.

Or you could buy them both. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Viscount, this is a valuable advice!
 
You're welcome.

I should mention that if you record stereo in-camera with an a7s and you want to pan a stereo track hard left and right, you first need to split it into 2 mono tracks. One way that works with most editors is to duplicate the stereo track on the timeline, then select left channel only on the first track, right channel only on the second track. Then pan the mono tracks left and right separately.
 
At the risk of suggesting the obvious, why not just mount a Rode VideoMic Pro Rycote? Set the mic pre-amp to +20 db, record into camera with the audio gain all the way down to 1. It works for my A7sii, it's cheap, easy, and small, very little noise--you can watch any number of test videos on Youtube that'll demonstrate.
 
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