Good codecs for editing in Premiere

parallactic-pictures said:
Okay, I found that secret (glitchy) window that was hiding in StreamClip and then selected 1080p/23.976 DNxHD 36 8bit. Though I will be doing this as an online, so perhaps I should have went with one of the 175s instead. Still, for the purposes of this test, I don't think it matters.

Regardless, it didn't make any improvement. The footage was just as stuttery. :(
Click to expand...

DNx36 is a pretty light load. I can get 3-4 streams going on the laptop, and 8-10 on my editing machine.

You may have other issues.
 
parallactic-pictures said:
Okay, here's an update:

I just finished converting all my Quicktime clips into DNxHD. I didn't have any other options for this codec, such as DNx36 or DNx175. I just had DNxHD in my dropdown box for codecs, once I selected Quicktime as my Export. So I went ahead and converted all 17 of my clips into DNxHD.

The total folder size went from 1.91 GB to 7.55 GB! So this conversion caused a massive jump in file size to my clips.

I was pleased to see though, that they imported into Premiere Pro CS 4 very quickly. Problem is, once they were in there, they play very, very stuttery. Worse than any other codec I've worked with so far to edit with these past few days. I did a test though, and made a mark in and mark out and then Exported a clip into AVI format, using the same DNxHD codec compression. And the exported clip played fine. Looked great and played smoothly.

So the playback issues are only happening within Premiere. If they weren't so drastic, I'd be able to just edit around them. But it's going to be too difficult.

So now I'm thinking that either I'm not doing something right during the MPEG StreamClip conversion process. OR, my machine can't handle Adobe Premiere.

So here are a couple of stats about my machine:

Windows 7 Pro 64bit
Adobe Premiere Pro CS 4
Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E7400 @ 2.8 GHz 2.27 GHz
Installed RAM: 4GB

Should I be okay with this setup to run Premiere with no hiccups?
Click to expand...

I hate to say it but getting a Quad Core would be wise. I am not saying you could play the native 7D codec in it's native format but I was blown away by the perfromance gain of going form a 2.13 GHZ Core 2 Dual to a 2.66 Quad Core.

What if you dropped the footage into a customized uncompressed 1920 X 1080 or 1280 X 720 project timeline? Does it still stutter? In other words don't use a P2, HDV or even an XDCAM project preset. Presets are kind of design for that codec although you can mix in match formats in any project setting.

One of the problems with using an intermediate codecs is a bigger file size than the original.
 
Yeah, getting a Quad Core is definitely on the horizon, but I'm not in the position yet to do that. So I'm just trying to make this work on my dual core for now.

I took your advice and tried a new Project Setting custom preset. Here were the stats I used:

Desktop
23.76
1920x1080
Square Pixels 1.0
No Fields (Progressive Scan)
24fps Timecode
480000 Hz
Microsoft AVI
Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit

Still plays stuttery. The pic freezes up about 3 secs into any clip I play (in either the Clip window or Timeline Composer window) and the sound continues.
 
medeamajic said:
One of the problems with using an intermediate codecs is a bigger file size than the original.
Click to expand...

This is greatly dependent on what format you started with. The idea of an intermediate was to edit a SMALLER file than a broadcast or cinema ready file.
 
The DNxHD 36 codec is essentially the same as the smallest version of ProRes on a Mac. That is small enough to play 2-3 streams over a USB 2.0 connection. A Core 2 Duo is borderline for this kind of thing with HD, but I don't know the state of your machine. How clean are your drives? Do you had dedicated drives for video? Are they defragged?

And I swear I don't understand the template choices... I firmly believe that is what is messing you up. You are telling it you have an uncompressed AVI file and you're giving it no such thing. So it may be trying to do a conversion on the fly. Does premiere give you any quicktime options? Of not, we may need to find you a suitable .AVI file type for you to work with.
 
What if you try uncompressed at 1280 X 720 does it still stutter? I am not sure what project setting would work best. I will be the first admit with your system I would more than likely convert AVCHD and HDV to an intermediate codec. I agree with others that maybe something is out of whack with your system although a Core 2 Duo is very medicore for HD.

If you had a laptop with a 5400 RPM spindle speed it might cause dropped frames (stutter). Is your system a laptop?
 
PerroneFord said:
This is greatly dependent on what format you started with. The idea of an intermediate was to edit a SMALLER file than a broadcast or cinema ready file.
Click to expand...


Six years ago it was kind of hard to get good keying with native HDV and it was hard on the CPU but time shave changed. The Cineform codec and Apple Pro Res codec were designed to make editing HDV easier. Although transcoding uncompressed into the Cineform codec or Apple Pro Res codec will result in a much smaller file with good results. An intermediate codec could be usefull for that but when you take natvie AVCHD or even native HDV and use an intmermediate codec you will get a bigger file.

I admit if I had a Core 2 Duo I might opt to use the Cineform Codec.
 
Yeah, when you go into custom presets, under Video Preview, 'Microsoft AVI' is the only option, and the 'Configure' button next to the pulldown is dithered. So yes, Premiere may indeed be transcoding the files further onces they're imported from Quicktime to AVI.

I had actually thought of this already, so as I typed this, I'm trying your Avid DNxHD compression with an AVI format instead of Quicktime. I had heard that Premiere prefers AVIs, so let's see if this helps.

As for the state of my machine, this is a custom box I built in March 2009. I keep it very clean and it was recently completely reformatted when I upgraded to Windows 7 Pro 64bit. All of the test footage is on a brand new 1TB Seagate External Firewire drive.

Only red flag is, the Seagate drive is FW400, as is my internal card. Would I need FW800, or eSATA to really get the media to be coming in at the correct speed?

ps
The system is a Desktop Windows computer, btw.
 
Hmm, this may be an issue with my Firewire card. It's been acting weird lately. When I watch a clip from it native (not via Premiere), it plays a little stuttery. Yet when I drag that clip to my local desktop, it plays smoothly.

Yet still, I tried a test and imported the local desktop clip into Premiere, and I still had the same stutter effect in Premiere. So this is confusing. Maybe my scratch disk has to be local as well, and not on the media drive.

I'll try a few more tests tomorrow and then head over to Best Buy and pick up a new Firewire card.

Gonna hit the sack for tonight. Thanks, guys, for all your help on this so far.
 
I used a NEC Fire Wire card and it gave me problems so I switched to a VIA Fire Wire card and that one worked. Good luck with your trouble shooting.
 
Try this for your Premiere Preset settings.

The reason why it is stuttering is because you're on a HDV timeline, it has to re render the full raster 1080p image to 1440x1080 in sted of 1920x1080.

on the new preset window, goto the general tab, choose desktop in the editing mode box and the frame rate in the box below.
change the frame size to 1920 by 1080 and change the pixel aspect ratio to square pixels and change the preview file format to I-Frame Only MPEG and click okay.

see if that improves performance.
 
Hi Smifis, I covered that in an earlier post. I created my own Custom Preset with the following details:

Desktop
23.76
1920x1080
Square Pixels 1.0
No Fields (Progressive Scan)
24fps Timecode
480000 Hz
Microsoft AVI
Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit

As for making the preview file format I-Frame Only MPEG, Microsoft AVI is the only option is gives me.
 
I'm sorry, i speed read things sometimes.

okay i don't know why it doesn't come up with MPEG on yours.

Considering, the bottom part is just for previews, it might be worth a try to set it to DV (24p Sdvanced)
 
one of the basic things that im not sure anyone has mentioned to do yet (sorry if i missed it) is to make sure that your monitor window is set to "automatic " quality. this little setting of preview quality is what keeps many people from getting realtime performance vs not with many different codecs. but theres just no point in running full quality just to make cuts. besides your not really viewing full quality anyway if your trying to render the full 1080p stream in a monitor window thats about 600x320 or so. ..unless you have a full rez video out for preview of course. but you only need to see the action in realtime to make your edit decisions. youll really only need full quality if your checking out some color grading up close and personal, or other effect work that you need to have pixel accuracy on. anyway you should be able to run just about anything in real time if your using automatic quality. ..then if you need a real eagle eye on things once your cuts are done, switch to full quality and check your colors and effects. your cuts should already be in place then so you dont have to worry about timing which means stutter really isnt an issue you need to mind at that point. espescially if your checking effects frame by frame. plus you can always prerender a section or two if you need to really review at full quality in full framerate for an effect or something. anyway hpoe this helps and sorry if im repeating a previous suggustion i missed.
 
Hi Neil,

Thanks for checking in on this thread. Turns out, my Firewire card was dying on me. I tested multiple firewire drives on it, and they all performed badly with it. And since my media is stored on firewire, the card itself may have been causing the stutter. So I have just ordered an eSATA card from New Egg (my main media drive has SATA capabilities). I'll see if this fixes it.

I'll also check the Automatic preview window thing. Thanks, man.
 
Okay, there was a break-through today. First, let me update you on all I've done since last post:

1. I was convinced my Firewire card on my Windows machine was the culprit, so I went and ordered an e-SATA card from NewEgg. It's en route now.

2. I reinstalled Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 on my Macbook Pro (15 inch, 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM) machine, convinced that Mac would trump my PC for Premiere editing. I then ran a number of tests converting one specific take into DNxHD compressions and Apple ProRes LT. None of them played well in my editor windows.

3. I then began experimenting with Project and Sequence settings. Created more custom ones. Tried Interlaced, Upperfield Only, Progressive Scan. I even tried importing the clips at 50% quality. Nothing worked.

4. Finally, I tried a new test and imported an old rough cut Quicktime file into Premiere of my last short film. It's about 500MB, H.264 codec. But the kicker was... the resolution was 640x360, since it was an output meant for the web.

It occurred to me then that, since this is just test footage, and I'll probably only be putting it on the web, I should try scaling down the take. So I re-converted it in MPEG StreamClip as a ProRes LT at 100% quality. But I put the dimensions at 640x360.

And it plays perfectly in Premiere. No stutter on either window.

So this led me to further examine all my monitor settings. My playback windows were indeed set to Automatic Quality. Display Mode is at Composite Video. And Magnification is at 'Fit'. None of those settings have ever changed.

As far as my interlace settings, I'm really not sure what to do with those. What do you recommend I keep them set at? Because it's something I then have to put into the MPEG StreamClip settings when I do the file conversions to ProRes. And I also have to set it on my custom preset for Premiere. So I want to make sure I get that right, and that the settings match, across the board.

Finally, what do you all think about the fact that, on either computer (Windows and Mac), I can't play 1920x1080 correctly? It plays fine when I watch the native clips.... full screen on my monitors outside of Premiere. Is this common with Premiere on 4GB RAM Core Duo 2.7 Ghz machines?

Most of the editing I'll be doing for now, will be meant for the web. Places like YouTube and my own website. But I obviously am striving to get better, and maybe one day edit my next feature on this thing. And for that, I'd definitely need full rez editing capabilities.

Thoughts?
 
okay try play the 1080p files again but look in your task manager, is the cpu usage up full and how much ram is being used?

IT's acting as if you don't have enough system resources.
 
I just came across this thread so sorry if any of this as been said.

First - your computer specs aren't the beefest, but you may be able to make this work - be it on your Mac or Windows Machine.

One thing to keep in mind is that cuurently Premiere Pro CS4 has a tough time with the native footage from the DSLR cameras - that may change in CS5, we'll have to see, but for now - it's tough to edit with.

I wouldn't use the HDV preset for the native files from the camera - use one of the XDCAM EX presets (one that closely matches your footage seetings) and you should see some improvement, but not much - I've got a dual quad core and 5D footage makes it crawl. The reason it plays back in Quicktime so well is because it just as to play back - it's a highly compressed MPEG-4 file, and playback is easy if all it has to do is play back...now, you want to edit that video? That's another story - Premiere Pro has to create all those frames and that's what brings it to a crawl - that and they don't have an exact edit preset for that format.

You could drop your 7D files into Adobe Media Enocder and convert them to P2 files and those should edit smoother then the native files. I know a few people who've done that and been happy with the results. I don't about using the Avid codec - that just seems like it could cause problems - but then it may not. You convert to them to ProRes files, but again - thay may or may not yield the best results in Premiere Pro.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top