Going Vintage... Super 8 or Super 16?

J

JGradus

New member
Hey Everybody,

My first post. I know this is dvxuser, and my question relates to amateur film, but I'm hoping someone can help me out here, especially with the festival questions...

I am a writer-director, soon to begin prep on a silent, black-and-white short that I would like to shoot on film. This is a very stylized, fictional piece that I intend for festival submission. The entire piece will be shot in daytime exteriors in Los Angeles.

I am weighing whether to shoot on Super 8 or 16/S16 (I will transfer to video for post, and submit DVDs to the festivals). As I will be shooting in Los Angeles, it will be very easy for me to head over to Spectra for pick-up / drop off of film.

Here are the pros and cons of Super 8mm as I see them:

PROS

1. I have extensive experience with Super 8mm. I have never worked with 16.
2. I own Super 8 equipment: camera, projector. I can load and shoot. If I go 16, I'll have to buy or rent.
3. Super 8 film / processing will be cheaper than 16.
4. Fewer crew members for Super 8mm I suppose. With 16, I would feel compelled to hire a DP, maybe an assistant to load.

CONS

1. Superior image / res with 16
2. Would festivals not accept a film shot in Super 8 (even if submitted on DVD)?
3. Would festivals that do accept it, not take it as seriously as 16mm / other entries?
4. Not really a "con," but I have a very close filmmaker friend who has offered to lend me his entire 16mm equipment for the shoot (I think he has a Bolex).
 
Don't worry about the festivals. Since you're getting a telecine to do your post just output it as you would any other project.

Spectra I believe is still putting in their HD telecine, or just finishing it up. I would give them a call and see what the status is on that. I've seen super 8 on a HD transfer and it really is awesome! If you're going to more of a stylized look super 8 may be a better fit for you since the format has a very unique look. Grab some V2 50D or V3 250D and you'd be set!

What camera you shooting with?
 
What in particular about S8 or S16 is it that makes you not consider shooting HD and then adding the appropriate effects in post to simulate this style?
 
The Student said:
Don't worry about the festivals. Since you're getting a telecine to do your post just output it as you would any other project.

Spectra I believe is still putting in their HD telecine, or just finishing it up. I would give them a call and see what the status is on that. I've seen super 8 on a HD transfer and it really is awesome! If you're going to more of a stylized look super 8 may be a better fit for you since the format has a very unique look. Grab some V2 50D or V3 250D and you'd be set!

What camera you shooting with?
Click to expand...

Please please could you find some of the super 8 to HD that is awesome i would very much like to see some,all the super 8 to HD i have seen looks just the same as super 8 to SD.
 
Noel Evans said:
What in particular about S8 or S16 is it that makes you not consider shooting HD and then adding the appropriate effects in post to simulate this style?
Click to expand...

I certainly want a stylized "film look" for my B&W, silent movie. But my considerations have to do with time and money (don't they always!).

I already own a Super 8 camera (it's an Elmo 1000S). I can load and go shoot today. Anything else, I'd have to rent. Also, Super 8 was designed for point and shoot. Though I will have a crew to help with lighting, I could theoretically shoot this by myself -- no crew, no lights -- and still get beautiful native film footage.

Going HD would require a crew, and a lot of time on setup relative to Super 8 (dealing with contrast issues, etc.). Then more work on post to get the look to where it would have been had I shot on film.

Then again, I've never tried to shoot HD and make it look like film (I feel every format has its strengths, so I've never tried to change the look of any given format). So maybe it's all much easier than I imagine it to be?
 
I'd say go with what you know.. you'll be more comfortable on set to tell the story you want to tell without feeling constrained by unknowns. Super 8 can look great when paired with the right story. Shooting HD and pretending its something else will just kill time and waste resources better spent elsewhere. If Super 8 is the look you're after, shoot on it.
 
flinty said:
Please please could you find some of the super 8 to HD that is awesome i would very much like to see some,all the super 8 to HD i have seen looks just the same as super 8 to SD.
Click to expand...
It should. Super8 doesn't have any resolving power beyond standard-def video, so transferring it to HD will result in nothing more being resolved.
 
S16 is the way to go. You'll get that good film grain and a little more depth and a lot more resolution.

S8 is really, really specific in look. Unless you want it, and it alone, I think the look of 16mm is much more beautiful.
 
JGradus said:
I already own a Super 8 camera (it's an Elmo 1000S). I can load and go shoot today. Anything else, I'd have to rent. Also, Super 8 was designed for point and shoot. Though I will have a crew to help with lighting, I could theoretically shoot this by myself -- no crew, no lights -- and still get beautiful native film footage.

Going HD would require a crew, and a lot of time on setup relative to Super 8 (dealing with contrast issues, etc.). Then more work on post to get the look to where it would have been had I shot on film.
Click to expand...


Whoa... this makes sense, but seems so backwards. Anyhow, I fully support your descision to shoot on film. I'd do S16. Get an aaton, or eclair, whatever blackand white you can find, and a set of 16mm zeiss superspeeds. Try to shoot on 25ASA film, or something similarly slow in daylight. If you're doing night shooting, try not to any higher than asa 200, it gets really grainy.
 
also, to the op, remember it matters on what you shoot. You can use reversal film all the way up to Vision3 negative stock. So be sure to get the film that suites your needs. :)
 
Here is an example of Super 8mm transferred to HD by http://cinelicious.tv/


There are quit a few more examples of Super 8 projects on Vimeo you could look at. 16mm is capable of much higher image quality, but will take more resources to shot with. Super 8mm, done well, is also capable of good images, and a unique aesthetic, in most instances. I have shot with both Super 8mm and 16mm film, and If I had my druthers, in general, I would definitely go with 16mm. However, Super 8mm does have a look that is really hard to duplicate and can be more appropriate, depending on the project. If you are looking for slick, clean images, for say a fictional narrative project, then 16mm would probably be more appropriate, but if you want images that are more abstract, expressionistic or a little bit more gritty, then Super 8mm would probably be the way to go.
 
Beautiful video. I'd say if that's the look you're after your a fool to shoot on anything other than Super 8. You'll never fake the same look with HD + effects.
 
Barry_Green said:
It should. Super8 doesn't have any resolving power beyond standard-def video, so transferring it to HD will result in nothing more being resolved.
Click to expand...
Yes this is what i am saying Barry all the super 8 to HD is realy hype a good SD transfer is perfectly adequate.
 
David G. Smith said:
Here is an example of Super 8mm transferred to HD by http://cinelicious.tv/


There are quit a few more examples of Super 8 projects on Vimeo you could look at. 16mm is capable of much higher image quality, but will take more resources to shot with. Super 8mm, done well, is also capable of good images, and a unique aesthetic, in most instances. I have shot with both Super 8mm and 16mm film, and If I had my druthers, in general, I would definitely go with 16mm. However, Super 8mm does have a look that is really hard to duplicate and can be more appropriate, depending on the project. If you are looking for slick, clean images, for say a fictional narrative project, then 16mm would probably be more appropriate, but if you want images that are more abstract, expressionistic or a little bit more gritty, then Super 8mm would probably be the way to go.
Click to expand...

this has been shown before,but it has less than mini dv resolution,if people want the look fine but HD no way.

http://vimeo.com/24104779
[URL="http://vimeo.com/26502646"]http://vimeo.com/26502646

i [/URL]will stick with this resolution
 
Last edited:
Its not broadcastable,the only film the BEEB will allow is 35mm.And one thing for sure many times as many feature films like Manic etc have been made with [edit ]MINI DV than super 8.
 
Last edited:
LOL. Funny how the HDSLR fan boys are attacking the Super 8 medium and forgetting their own mantra of "good enough". That's the mantra they use any time resolution tests or Zacuto shootout results show how bad the DSLR's look in particular situation against the serious cameras. The well-lit shots in that Super 8 video look wonderful. There's no festival in the world that wouldn't show this format if the story is worth telling.
 
Snazzy Flapper said:
LOL. Funny how the HDSLR fan boys are attacking the Super 8 medium and forgetting their own mantra of "good enough". That's the mantra they use any time resolution tests or Zacuto shootout results show how bad the DSLR's look in particular situation against the serious cameras. The well-lit shots in that Super 8 video look wonderful. There's no festival in the world that wouldn't show this format if the story is worth telling.
Click to expand...

so you are telling me that film the streets of india does does not have great color and resolution,can you imagine how it would look on a large screen hd tv ,sad how the less than 500 line grain lovers are.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top