GH5 GH5s dynamic range tests

Jim Arthurs said:
... if it WAS a camera with 14 stop range, you could underexpose middle grey one or two stops from where the recommended exposure for where middle grey is, and still have decent, non-crunchy shadow tones while giving you some really good highlight protection. But you can't. Not in VLOG-L, not in HLG. I can think of a couple cameras claiming they're "14 stop cameras" where you actually can do that.
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True, but while they often go together dynamic range is not exactly the same as exposure latitude.
 
Any thought of doing the green screen in VLog ? I'm thinking it might help key the green more once you put a LUT on or would you do that beforehand ?
 
Cary, Tom, or anyone else... have you shot HLG and turned the footage over to a client, giving them nothing but the data, a firm handshake, and warm regards to the handling in post? :)

I'm not concerned about HLG in house on my end-to-end projects, including an upcoming gig featuring tons of b-roll and green screen, but sometimes I can't follow the shots all the way down the line...

Regards
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Cary, Tom, or anyone else... have you shot HLG and turned the footage over to a client, giving them nothing but the data, a firm handshake, and warm regards to the handling in post? :)

I'm not concerned about HLG in house on my end-to-end projects, including an upcoming gig featuring tons of b-roll and green screen, but sometimes I can't follow the shots all the way down the line...

Regards
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Jim NO! Absolutely NOT! Unless they ask for it, I would not take such a risk. I am asked to provide my footage in V-LogL and that's what they get. I was merely stating my "preference." Yes, if I am grading in-house I would prefer to work with HLG because the colors seem more natural and the DR feels wider as well, but the client uses Premier CC and I use Resolve. Not being on same page therefore I just give them the V-LogL that they request. It's not bad, but the highlights don't feel as extended as HLG and the color I already mentioned. VLog-L feels more saturated, perhaps more contrasty or punchy but less natural to me. I'm still okay with it however. I use Resolve Color Management transforms which makes HDR easier than ever, and I've been doing HDR since 2015. And now particularly with Resolve V15 Beta, the timeline to output tone mapping feature has almost made an HDR10 monitor non-essential however I do use a BMD Decklink card with one. The client doesn't do HDR so what I enjoy and what they want are not the same, but I set aside my preference to give them what they request.

I do feel shooting in HLG that I need to be careful with it, to not overexpose in particular and end up with the skin tones pushed up too too high where there are fewer shades to represent them. That's where faces can get thin and flat. Less worry with V-LogL in that regard since the IRE range has been held to 80, but that's also the reason it doesn't allow the delicate, finite control of highlight details either, the way HLG can. The range of HLG is so much greater than what you can see in the VF, analogous to flying all weather at night, you depend on your instruments (WFM) to guide you. V-LogL on the other hand is almost forgiving enough to use automatic exposure settings and I sometimes do because the footage has to start rolling when I'm sometimes less than ready. HLG takes more care, but is more fun and rewarding if you have the time to nail down the exposure for the full range you want to portray.
 
Recording in HLG does not limit you in any way. You can record in HLG and deliver in Rec.709.

I would either record in V-Log or HLG to be able to grade your footage to Rec.709 and to make your footage future proof.
 
Tom Roper said:
VLog-L feels more saturated, perhaps more contrasty or punchy but less natural to me.
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The problem with V-Log-L I find is that it is not using V-Gamut. If you use ACES or YRGB Color Managed and interpret the gamut as V-Gamut it becomes too saturated, especially the blues can become "radioactive". Using separate gamut/gamma V-Log/Rec709 is not ideal either.

I agree with you that HGL is much better (except for the V-Log reds which are really nice).

Resolve color management handles technical transforms perfectly and you do not need to tinker with all kind of promising-the-moon LUTs.
 
VLog L is using V-Gamut but just with reduced coverage from what I heard...what are you using as source for VLog L footage in RCM transforms?
 
dia3olik said:
VLog L is using V-Gamut but just with reduced coverage from what I heard
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I really can't agree with that, the colors become over saturated by using V-Gamut.

dia3olik said:
...what are you using as source for VLog L footage in RCM transforms?
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I use the separate gamut/gamma option and select a V-Log gamma and a Rec.709 gamut.
For ACES there is no option so I use V-Log/V-Gamut and have a node with a LUT to correct the V-Gamut to a Rec.709 gamut.
 
bigmouthmedia said:
Any thought of doing the green screen in VLog ? I'm thinking it might help key the green more once you put a LUT on or would you do that beforehand ?
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If it helps you, or anyone else experiment with GH5s post workflows, I put a selection of short green screen test clips on an ftp site so you can experiment with them. There's Natural, VLOG, and HLG at low, medium and high ISO's. I shot these back in February, when I first got the camera...

http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/GH5s_tests/

Regards,
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Cary, Tom, or anyone else... have you shot HLG and turned the footage over to a client, giving them nothing but the data, a firm handshake, and warm regards to the handling in post? :)

I'm not concerned about HLG in house on my end-to-end projects, including an upcoming gig featuring tons of b-roll and green screen, but sometimes I can't follow the shots all the way down the line...

Regards
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I just did a job for a client, and the shoot was going to be fairly high dynamic range (interior real estate with lakeside view), so I asked them what were the specs of the shoot, and they asked for Log footage. I asked them would they like HLG footage, and they said "What?, hold on...", then the colorist got on the call and said "HLG? No, I've never heard of it!"

So giving a client HLG footage, when to the untrained eye, it may look like Rec-709 if the scopes aren't on, but then everything they know and love will be out the window!

I'd love to have shot this job entirely in HLG, and I did do a few clips just to see how it compares to V-Log-L in trying circumstances. But I feel at this time, with HLG being so new, that you can only do use this if you are going to create the final deliverable yourself.
 
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